Answer my question, that’s a good 90% of your problem here.
Little late for cookies to get sour grapes.
That’s about all that she has left after the wine, I guess.
Nope. it is a lost cause.
No sour grapes here. The town won fair and square.
For you perhaps.
It’s simple math from where I sit.
In a certain sense, my vote broke a tie. Hence contribution.
Did I get this wrong?
Yes.
But you aren’t going to explain it to me, so…
I contributed to the win. I played in the end game.
We would agree on other parts of the game.
As a side note, cookies is also going the way of Pleonast right now.
To clarify :
I flat out do not get why cookies doesn’t get it.
I contributed to the town win. It is W R O N G. To say otherwise. Period.
Okay, I’ll answer for Cookies. Sorry, Meeko, from this observer you did absolute diddly for the Town win except survive, and God only knows how you managed to do that – except not participate for much of the game. And you can say the same for fubbles and babale.
The reasons why you were actively unhelpful to Town:
- You voted for people for no reason. Total scattershot approach.
- You voted for everyone, which is the same as voting for no one.
- You behaved like scum, writing hostile and petulant posts that were barely coherent. It was like reading Time Cube guy.
- You offered no relevant strategy to your fellow players.
- Your participation was nearly nonexistant throughout large patches of the game, which made it hard for your fellow Townies to get a read on you.
I’m not worshipping LightFoot either. But in the end she had to flip a coin, and the coin flipped in the right direction. So if for no other reason than good luck, she gets the Better Town Player award.
Sorry, bud. You don’t deserve kudos for this win any more than I do, despite both of us being Town and thus, by the nature of the game, a Town win means we both won. The only reason you survived was because you stayed dormant for long stretches and kept your head down. Yep, that’s one way to survive, but if everyone did that there’d be no posts. Indeed, one of the reasons the last few weeks were so achingly slow and dull to watch was that the majority of players (at least three players and even both mods) were MIA for much of the time, though at least story had a good reason and told people in advance about it.
Now I’m not saying all this because I think I’m a good player, God knows. I screwed the pooch numerous times before wombat99 killed a fellow Townie and put an end to my misery. But part of my secret, schadenfreudelicious satisfaction while watching this unfold was discovering the existence of someone less skilled than I! That was pretty cool, and for that I am eternally grateful. I still won’t be playing again, but it’s good to go out knowing I wasn’t the absolute worst. 
Ok fine. Because I like you, I’ll prolong everyone else’s torture or hasten their unsubscriptions from the thread. 
You were left alive for the endgame on purpose, and it was precisely because of your anti-town play (among other reasons, such as your investigation-confirmed vanilla flavor), including but not limited to:
- advocating to completely disregard the Town Cop’s investigation results upon his actually finding scum vs consider them as possibly valid
- non-sensical argument that only 100% mod-confirmed information should be used in any sort of analysis or case-building
- purposefully going awol from a great swath of the game, assumedly because you got upset with people who were trying to explain (both for strategic reasons and for the sake of Mafia in general) the strategic flaws in the first two points
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I don’t think your case against me in the early game had much to do with the later case that prompted me to confess and unload some of the scum’s intelligence. I don’t think you see some of the strategy that went into my decision to out myself or what to share or not to share or what to lie or mislead about.
I never said you contributed nothing. What I have said, and say again now, is that I think your contribution to the win was comparatively less than others on your team, and I hope you can see that as an attempt at constructive criticism and not a personal attack on you.
I think circumstances that had nothing at all to do with your play (such as Babale being confirmed as a Mason even though she was a complete non-participate in the vast majority of the game, fubbs going awol, some possibly fumbled mod PMs to my scummate, Johnny) had more of a contributing effect on the Town’s win, than your contributions.
Seeing this perspective does require some abstract strategic thought, however, and we’ve established that is not your forte. If anything, I have the opposite problem and find it almost impossible to discuss Mafia without using abstract thought, which I suspect is why you and I tend to go round and round. I’m also easily entertained and arguably a glutton for punishment when it comes to you.
The Mafia player in me can get frustrated with you, Meeko, because sometimes you make it very challenging to enjoy playing the game with you in general. The recently defeated Scum in me was happy to try and exploit some of those very same facets of your personality and play style that tend to frustrate me as Mafia player when I don’t happen to have any insight into your alignment like I had in this game. The recently defeated Scum in me is also is a little frustrated with some of the bad breaks that the Scum team received, but that is the nature of the game, which is to have fun and enjoy eachothers’ brains and creativity.
To bring it all home with the all important sense of perspective, you can’t get more joyous and creative than sharing, however distantly or remotely, in the healthy birth of a new baby to someone within a chosen circle of friends. And that is how I feel about my fellow Mafia players, including yourself: a chosen circle of friends with a common interest in playing this crazy game.
Let me take this one first.
I voted.
You are now saying big deal. At the point I am vanilla, and you filter everything I say to you, I am not sure what else vanilla town can really do.
I voted without reason. I’ve seen it done before, it will happen in the future. By logic you yourself use in the very next item, if everyone is indicted, no one is.
Now that the game is over, you know I am town. Seems logical to me in a game that allows it, to vote for everyone else. Games have gotten to a play state far worse than “spray and pray”.
I behaved like scum. … Elaborate. Bonus points if you avoid saying “scum wouldn’t do that”. This in my opinion is your opinion. It’s subjective, and therefore worthless. Don’t confuse “Meeko” with Scum. [the quote and capital is to imply my style. - I don’t think a single game has gone by where I have not been a false positive for scum by some yardstick.]
Oh, so this is an attack on my baseline. Got it. Um, yeah, I can’t turn they way that I am off. C.F. Peeker and Roosh. Again, at the point that my style covers all of my posts, it doesn’t really cover any of them.
I offered no strategy. Well, I’m not sure how well “you guys can really really trust me in this game, I’m town, I swear!” goes over. Your violating the premise of mafia here, mistaking it for something that I (or you for that matter) have control over.
Or did asking Lightfoot to go with her gut not do anything for town?
Townies didn’t get a read on me… But you just said that I was acting like scum.
I guess someone got a read somewhere.
Again, I’m not sure how, on my own devices, I can make you guys listen to me, regardless of alignment.
Cookies did have an investigation me, it was the truth, and I reported it in my defense.
She didn’t have to “flip a coin” I was there to nudge. And I do think that counted for something despite it being a ““gut”” feeling.
I was not aware this was your last game.
I really, really do think there is a far reaching meta issue to mafia that I do not get. It’s going to hurt me more than it has in this game to get to it, but relatively speaking, it will be worth it.
There is something to life, and indeed in my life currently that mafia will show me. Masochistic as it sounds, I play on to find it.
If you need to take time, do so, don’t put up mafia because of the…, this game was an outlier in terms of non-participation. Next one won’t be as bad. It can’t be.
As for me… I think I need to sit the next one out.
I have a good shot at more hours at work. I have a good shot at a promotion (finally) and that will mean less time here. Until that is settled…
Yes!
If I knew why scum did what they did, or could conclude worthwhile and timely responses to it, I would be a,ing the first to go. But the. Again it would be worthwhile for the scum to do that. Unless scum wouldn’t do that…
I don’t know what use it is for me to know that I was spared. Town still won. Who’s to say that if I had not been spared, scum would have won this one? Seems to me I’m doing pretty good in the end game as town. I wonder how many games the side I was on won, once we got to the end game with me still alive. The opposite, how many games have we lost when I go in the first night or two is also a good question.
FOR THE LAST TIME:
AN ANONYMOUS NOTE CAN NOT BE VERIFIED. NO ONE KNEW IT WAS LEGIT, NO ONE SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED IT.
So for the next game we play, cookies, you will do everything I tell you to do? Because apparently, that’s what we should do… Have blind lead the blind.
The number of times I came back to the game, things I wanted to do, I couldn’t. I’m not sure how to get back into a game once you miss one or two real life days (for whatever reason) … If you say “Meeko, you work at it, you work to catch up” then you have forgotten that you are PLAYING a game here. There are many ways mafia can be not fun. At the point I’m back in accounting or finance (no offense Peeker) I’m out. If you need me, I’ll be in the quad playing magic.
Again, if I could be that good at scum hunting…if I was that good at reading you, it would be awkward for the both of us. (Then again, I think we would both do anything right now to mind meld over mafia, per this debate)
At the point it was down to the three of us, would you have played my “hand” any differently? I knew I was left for dead, and I felt like I fought tooth and nail at the end. I shouldn’t have put my self there in the first place, but that’s not this argument. I often lose my Queen in chess. If that happens, watch out for the stalemate. True, I don’t win, but boy, it sucks to be you at that point. That to say, I had and did, a lot to give in the end.
I think we disagree on how important the last vote was. It was the deciding play. Who was there for it? Not Johnny, Not Babble.
As I said earlier, and in so many ways, I know there is something I do not get. I basically want Mafia to psychoanalyze me and diagnose something… Complete with treatment. And I don’t know that it can do that, except by way of me playing. I was dead serious earlier, I can sense you are closer to Pleonast’s style than mine… I wanted to, a s still have not talked to him for his perspective on mafia in general. I think you guys were, to be frank, nurtured differently than I was.
For me, there is no debate, you are what life has done to you, not how you pop into the world.
And, I think I come up short on that end. Again, glimpses of what I am missing here, never while I have pen and pad of paper.
Do you think that if I could turn off certain parts of me, that I would? As you are claiming for yourself (and I’m not slighting you for it) you don’t mean to come off a certain way, with respect, you can not help it. As for yours, so for mine.
You speak of sharing. I want to think you mean this in terms of posting volume, to say everything.
I need to protect what I have. I need to grind it out and hoard it. I was burned by something somewhere and I shun risk.
Did I mention that I know I’m missing pieces to this game?
You’ve already received my last ounce of try. Good luck with the job stuff.
Meeko does have one good point, there: Town didn’t have any good reason to trust the Barn note as it was written, and lucked out that it turned out to be genuine. From my perspective, it actually made stanislaus look more likely to be Town, since I thought it significantly more likely that it was written by Scum, not by the real Detective, and Scum would have no reason to cast suspicion on one of their own that way.
The point is that there was no reason to summarily dismiss it, and certainly not to assume that it was not true. At leas not beyond the consideration of all possible hypothetical analytical scenarios to ensure that all bases are covered.
Signing it would not have made it any more trustworthy that Day. I’m all for a debate as to whether he should have instead sat on the information for longer or posted it publicly instead of using the barn. FWIW, he did what I would have done if I were in his position, though I probably would have signed it as Town. I don’t think not signing it was major blunder though. I think it was too early for a public claim and why hold onto information like that when there is a mechanism to get the information out anonymously?
Not sure how things would have panned out if I hadn’t beat the busing horse as hard as I did, though.
Signing it wouldn’t have made any difference that day, but it would have in the long run. There’s two things that could have happened from there. One, the Detective could have eventually reached the point where he had enough information to justify claiming publicly anyway. In this case, of course, the message would have become irrelevant, but that’s OK. Two, the Detective could have gotten killed before revealing. In this case, once the Detective died and Town knew his role name, the message would have been semi-confirmed, and it would have been reasonable for Town to act on it, and that information at least would not have been lost.
As for “no reason to summarily dismiss it”, I argue that there was. Consider: That Day resulted in discussion of virtually no other topic, and stanislaus being lynched by a large margin. If he had actually been Town, that would have been an amazingly good outcome for Scum. So really, that’s a tactic that Scum should have used. Added to that, of course, it was a tactic that was a lot easier for Scum to use than it was for the real Detective: In order for the real Detective to use it, he had to get lucky with his investigation, and then he had to completely exhaust a limited resource, but Scum just had to know who wasn’t one of them, and then burn 20% of their barn posts. So Town really should have considered the message to more likely be from Scum.
Some folks were saying things like “We need to test the truth of the barn message”, but that argument doesn’t hold water, either. The truth or falsehood of that message had no relationship to the truth or falsehood of any other barn message, so “testing” it would tell you nothing beyond the alignment of one player. Which, you know, is something you learn from any lynch at all. This is different from when a Detective publicly claims: Then, “testing” the claim does tell you something, because if it’s true, you can hopefully get more information that’s verifiably from the same source, and if it’s false, you know who to string up for it.
I completely agree with Chronos. As my posts that day might indicate, I thought we were crazy to be so completely trusting the message, and I repeatedly tried to get people to discuss other targets.
Of course, I ended up totally wrong. Pretty much par for the course this game!