[Mafia game] The Realm of Phere

Some thoughts on Visorslash voters.

Firstly, from the pregame chatter I formed an impression that Visorslash likes aggressive play, trash-talks other players (at lest those he is familiar with) and swings hard. His votes, and attacking ATPG, show this approach.

Weedy’s vote looks to me to be a joke vote based off a comment by Visorslash. It’s since been removed.
Silver Jan’s vote seems to be for Visorslash voting for Renata. I don’t consider it well grounded. I note that it has not yet been removed.
Mahaloth’s vote is also unsubstantiated. This may be because Maha has a significant rl issue taking front and centre in his life right now. It was the third vote at the time, but Maha’s been around long enough to know that, and probably didn’t care anyway.
Septimus’s vote is also poorly grounded. Part of it is based on Visorslash’s [post=14939842]post 105[/post], which is clearly an “I don’t care” response to Normal Phase’s preceding post. It has been removed – see [post=14945043]post 317[/post], in which Septimus describes it as a “placeholder.”
PetW’s vote in post 190 was explained in [post=14942257]post 188[/post], for refusing to answer questions, one of which I interpreted as a bit personal. (I wouldn’t give my age out either, PetW).

I don’t really see anything very suspicious in this except for Silver Jan’s ungrounded vote and my dislike of PetW’s question on ages. I need to review votes on Gadarene as well. I did a fast reread of Silver Jan’s posts made after her vote.
[post=14940985]Post 138[/post]: Categorised her own vote as “having no legs” and claims surprise at the other votes.
[post=14941002]Post 140[/post]: Asks Maha to explain his vote.
[post=14941023]Post 142[/post]: Explains why her vote is still on Visorslash.
[post=14941081]Post 148[/post]: Doesn’t have a handle on Visorslash’s style.

While Silver Jan seems to have some reasons for her vote, she also admits that the reasons for her vote could just be his style, and that is not a good reason. IMO it smacks of trying too hard to justify something she’s getting a little heat for.

Vote Silver Jan for now.

I need to review the Gadarene voters before finalising the vote, and also review Astral, but rl obligations mean I’m busy for the next three hours or so.

Back in a while.

I am really bothered by the lack of participation. Most of this list have no excuse. Red skeezix has made a habit of just plain not showing up lately. I know we have a couple of subs and i know we have a wrath of demon rule, but still.

Third try, fuck tablets and sdmb . Glee you are not contributing either.

Not real impressed by that vote mhaye.

@** Mhaye**, you said that** visorslash** is an aggressive player, I haven’t seen that at all. All his votes have been reactive votes, apart from his 1st one, doesn’t that look even a teeny tiny bit fishy to you?

I also don’t like the fact that some people haven’t even bothered to show up yet :frowning:

i wonder how many will cite not knowing the Day was shorter as an excuse. :dubious:

But he’s no longer near the Lynch lead … and never claimed to find Gadarene suspicious. I’m attracting Lynch interest myself – does that mean I should ignore who seems scummiest and Vote Lynch leader for self-preservation? :dubious:

:confused: Although my voting post does not continue the string “anti-Town” it’s hard to see how anyone could find another interpretation for that vote. I quoted “If you are town, how would that help you/the rest of us?” and said I agreed.

I’d find your smudging to be Scummish except for prior history … :smiley:

Sorry everyone - weekends are tough. Long weekends especially so. Catching up now.

Ok, first off, I don’t really see the scum in **Astral’s **initial post post. Just looks like a pun to me.

His voting shenanigans around what he thought was EOD are more suspicious. Why would he think there would be last minute shenanigans to save Gadarene? I don’t think he expressed actual suspicion of **Gadarene **at any point so why the big rush to save him over visorslash? It’s a bit WIFOM’y though because I’m not sure I buy that scum would draw attention to themselves like that.

The reaction to it was more suspicious - Inner, choie, **Toejam **and Guiri all thought it was suspicious but no one voted. Then **Lightfoot **came along and stated much the same thing again.

which is the exact same thing she did previously here:

So I’m going to ** vote Lightfoot ** since I think her contributions have been largely reprocessing what other people have said in an attempt to seem like she’s participating.

Voting **visorslash **seems to be standard lynch the new guy stuff which happens every damn game.

That’s fine. I think it may well be one of the weakest D1 votes I’ve ever placed. I’d like to find someone better. Going to finish lunch and go looking.

I’m not just looking at votes. He has a fairly up-at-you posting style. That sort of joking around might attract me if I was a bit more extroverted.

Storyteller opened D6 of Arkham Revisited at 1pm; he’s away with only a phone to post on. Don’t expect to see him in here today.

It might be worth poking low posters.

At the time Visorslash voted he was one behind Gad. At the time he was last online he was one vote behind Gad (12:42am, or just after post 303 was made.) That makes it a reasonable self-defence vote in my eyes.

I agree, to be honest.

I’ve opted to review the posts of Astral Rejection (AR), not realising how prolific he has been. 90% of the reason is that he’s voted for me and that caught my eye. The other 10% is the shenanigans at around 10pm yesterday. That might have been enough on its own, but maybe I’d just have looked at his posts around then.

I’m not going to look at every post, just what I consider the significant ones.

[post=14936335]Post 26[/post] has attracted some heat. I read it at the time, and still do, as a simple cheesy pun.

[post=14938836]Post 66[/post]: I think AR makes a couple of good points here. Plausible speculation.

[post=14938902]Post 78[/post]: Votes Choie for suggesting Guiri’s vote for AR might have been in jest. I can see what AR is saying. I’m not sure I would have voted for it, but that’s just a difference of opinion.

[post=14939160]Post 84[/post]: Questions Gadarene on his vote.

[post=14941619]Post 169[/post]: Pushes Gadarene further, unvotes Choie and explains that he caught a hint of something that he can’t detect any longer.

[post=14942247]Post 186[/post]: Votes me. This is the big one, obviously (at least from my point of view. Others may tend to focus on his vote-jumping.)AR takes issue with me not jumping into a mess of Day 1 votes, fists swinging. Frankly, I don’t know why he expects me to.

I find early Day 1 votes are almost never worth commenting on. Eitehr they’re joke votes, random votes or drive-bys with the intention of getting the voted-for person to participate. What those votes have in common is a lack of any real justification.

In my opinion, nothing’s going to be learned by criticising them as they happen, they’re pretty much meaningless except for the voter and wheover is voted for. Any value we’re going to extract from them comes at the end of the Day (or more likely, future Days) when we have perspective and the evidence of several Days actions and role reveals.

Given that opinion, and the fact that my knee-jerk reactions cannot be trusted (as discussed in [post=14943631]post 272[/post], why should I jump in at the time? It’s going to waste my time and add to the fog. All I’m going to do is note them and carry on. If you don’t like that, tough. I’m not going to change my playstyle.

In fact, if I do jump in hard with early votes on Day 1, either I’ve found a smoking gun or I have a hidden agenda. Was there really a smoking gun there?

Inner Stickler mentioned my name and raised my grudge warning. It amused me to post that. AR started his game with a pun, but criticises me for opening my game with a lighthearted hail to another player who was trying to steal my thunder? Noted.[post=14942255]Post 187[/post]: Compares his post to one of Glee’s and asks Guiri and Gadarene why they singled him out for votes over Glee. Defends this in [post=14942677]post 229[/post].

We now come to the vote shenanigans.AR asks me why I haven’t weighed in on the main topics – a question already annswerd, see 272 and comments above – and switches to Gadarene, then (on having his error pointed out) switches back.

The actual vote switch isn’t as important (imo) as his explanation of why. He defends his change in [post=14943822]post 279[/post] as wanting to ensure no-one could jump from voting Gad to voting Visorslash and cause a sudden last-minute change in the vote lead. Now, that could be a respectable defence, if employed alongside an explanation of why he considered Gadarene more likely than Visorslash to be Mafia. In AR’s defence, he’s been pushing Gadarene about his vote all Day; against that you have to consider that Gadarene has voted for AR while Visorslash hasn’t. Inner Stickler suggests possible Mafia motivations, which AR admits he can’t disprove in [post=14943837]post 282[/post].

In [post=14943856]post 286[/post] AR says that he aimed to “preserve what town had selected as their lynch.” That could be a very interesting slip of the tongue. It seems to suggest that he knows that the voters on Visorslash include anti-Town elements, which raises the question of how he knew that. Alternatively, he might be a Mafiate pushing a Townie wagon further into the lead (which doesn’t have any implications for Visorslash, by the way).

Or it might be the gift of a clear conscience.

[post=14944165]Post 302[/post]: Claims he had not thought through all the implications and possibilities when he decided to switch. If he’s Town this is almost certainly true; if he’s not it’s a fib. Unfortunately we can’t tell (unless there’s a lie detector role in the game) without lynching him. Pity in a way.

It seems plain that AR has some suspicions of Gadarene, but failed to explain why he thought Visorslash was less suspicious. Consequently the vote switch does leave a bad impression.Enough of an impression to overshadow the very faint suspicion Silver Jan left me with? Yes, much more so. Couple this with his ignoring my playstyle, which he has been exposed to, and which I have already commented on once and had completely ignored, that’s enough for a vote.

Unvote.
Vote Astral Rejection

I have to disagree with this.

Sometimes we are faced with a situation where two players are clearly in the lead, and the third placed player is significantly behind. In such a case, anyone placing their vote on a candidate other than the two leaders is washing their hands of responsibility for the actual lynch.

If a player has mild suspicions of one of the two leaders but strong suspicions against one of the otherwise-unsuspected players, they should be prepared to place a vote for the vote leader they find more suspicious, especially if that player is slightly behind in the voting. Closing the gap might encourage others to take a look at the player thus voted for.

Certainly, the player should (if they have one) make their main suspect plain as well, just in case.

That is correct.

Askthepizzaguy. What are you trying to imply?

I voted to lynch Gadarene, not save him. And do you honestly think I’ve never once posted something that indicated suspicion of Gadarene?


Due to the holiday and whatnot, I won’t be around much longer, and I’ll miss Day end. I’ll try to follow along on my phone, but no promises. If you have anything you’d like me to address directly, ask away while I’m still here! :smiley:

That’s a terrible reason to justify your vote. My complaint was that you were not commenting on anything that happened in the game. You’ve made a flurry of activity now, at the end of the day, but that doesn’t excuse your total radio silence in the first 2/3rds of the day. That is not pro-town behavior, and as I’ve said, I believe you were keeping your head down and letting us duke it out.

I’m sorry I “completely ignored” your playstyle comment, but it’s immaterial to my case. I don’t remember you having nothing at all to say in previous games.

I have to disagree with you here.
Some mafia cultures demand you pick one of the wagons- some do not- If I don’t “ see” the case for a wagon I will not vote there.
Hell if I have to pick a wagon and that player turns out to be town I’ll get heat the rest of the game for voting a Townie off- nope not going there
I vote where I see a case. not where someone else does- all play styles are acceptable I suppose. but voting someone because there is a wagon on them is not logical - to me- although it is a great place to hide

so.. you just show up and choose 2 of my comments to focus on other than some of the other things that have transpired?
both on the same subject and something you say you agree with? .. colour me confused here…I said the same thing twice? 'cause that’s how I feel maybe?

@ Scathach, I had already voted Astral when he did the voting shenanigans.
@ Silver, what work did I do for you yesterday? I don’t think you’ve explained your denial.
@ MHaye, do you think a scummy Astral is more or less likely to confuse Day end than non-scum? I always thought your usual play style was to sit quiet during the Day and post some deeply thought out analysis in one or two posts close to deadline summarising the events of the Day with a vote, often a one off.
@ Gadarene, I think you’re still vote leader, any comments?

First off, some bookkeeping. I am a guy and there are no caps in my name.

Ok, so I think I have finally caught up with all of the posts. I have to say that I really don’t find the cases for any of the frontrunners convincing.

Visorslash comes off as annoying and slightly antagonistic…but that really seems to be him, as evidenced by other posters from previous games. And would scum really want to come out as antagonistic on day one? Seems far fetched to me…

Gadarene made a quick call, and defended it. He quickly gained a cast of votes and is still now the frontrunner. I am still not sure why his quick vote gained this wagon, while other quick votes and me toos skated under the radar. I do wish he was involved in the discussion today.

Astral Rejection was a quick target and is now drawing more attention for his vote jump. I find BobArrgh’s argument regarding the fact that scum would be very aware of when the day ends convincing and I don’t think AR is scum (for the moment…)

So, I can’t really go with any of the wagons. There have been a lot of non contributors so far (including me, I know), but the one poster that has caught my eye is Mahaloth. He posted a vote for Visorslash and nothing else, which drew attention from Silver Jan and Normal Phase. His explanation was “I agree with what has been said previously.” The matter was then inexplicably dropped. Now I know it’s day one and there is not much to go on…but I find it hard to believe this vote has been ignored for this long.

Vote: Mahaloth

by my count…
6–Gadarene : NAF (91), ToeJam (120), Choie (152), Inner Stickler (197), Visorslash (236) BobArrgh

4–Visorslash : Silver Jan (95), Mahaloth (124), Septimus (132), PetW (190)
4–Astral Rejection : GuiriEnEspana (57), Gadarene (83) septimus, MHaye ( if the unvote counts)
4-- Mosier : Normal Phase (65), Lightfoot (237) surburban, gnarly charlie

1–Septimus : Weedy (184)
1–MHaye : Astral Rejection (186)
1—LightFoot: scathach
Checking to see if my tally is correct as we approach EOD= yes I borrowed another players count and added the new votes to it so double errors are possible

21 voting?

@ Guiri, I was going to look at all the peeps that voted for visor.

I don’t really know what you want from me.