or not Yeah
But you did count Tanaer, who also unvoted. The treatment of the two is inconsistent.
Choie is one of the flood of voters who followed Guiri; and you skipped over her for what seems to me no good reason.I suggest you do look back, and come back with something better - or at least, better grounds for your opinion.
I agree, I should have been on the list, though I appreciate Silver Jan’s taking into account my vote change and the reason for it.
Not that you’ll buy this, MHaye, but Guiri had literally nothing to do with my placing a vote on Astral. The vote was entirely the result of the interchange between me and Normal Phase. Earlier I said (and felt) that she’d bullied me into it, but fuck that, I’m over 21 and should be responsible for my own decisions.
The overall feeling at the time, pushed by Normal, was that in order to beat the mysterious 3-voting fiend, we had to overwhelmingly vote for one candidate so that Town would lynch whoever we wanted rather than lettting ourselves be outvoted by the aforementioned M3-VF. I said that I didn’t want to vote for someone I wasn’t getting much of a scum read off of, but again, felt the pressure because supposedly voting Astral was the Right Thing for Town. Hell, even he was saying it. My vote for fubbles was being derided as useless, Why was I persisting with tilting at fubbles’ windmills instead of doing what most people insisted was the Right Thing for Town? So I gave up and gave in.
However, when I saw Normal jump off the bandwagon she began, with that “yay, I’ve got what I wanted, now I can hop off and vote for someone else” post, I realized that one of the chief advocates for Doing the Right Thing for Town was kind of a big ol’ hypocrite, and that I’d gone against my feelings for no reason. So I said y’know, fuck this noise, and switched my vote back to where I wanted it in the first place.
It is entirely possible, maybe even likely, that Normal genuinely thought her advocacy of an Astral lynch and subsequent unvoting of him was helping Town, and she just didn’t see how damning her comment (parahprase: "woohoo, other people are voting for Astral now, so I get to vote my conscience) was both to her own reputation and what she was claiming was the Right Thing for Town. And in fact it’s so blatantly hypocritical and scummy that though I originally was furious with these actions, I almost can’t imagine Scum being so incredibly blatant.
On the other hand, maybe the iocane powder really is in front of me after all. WIFOM city, I know.
Anyway, for what it’s worth, that was what I am generously calling “my thought process” at the time.
Actually, that sounds fairly reasonable. Your description accords with what I remember.
I do actually agree that, sometimes, Town-aligned players need to lay aside their own deep-seated convictions and consider whether their vote needs to be placed on one or another of the bandwagon leaders - whichever one you consider more likely (or less unlikely in some cases) to be Mafia. The Day 2 situation was potentially the same; Astral had a significant lead, and given that there were two at-the-time unknown secret voters around, plus the possibility that a non-Town player could generate three extra votes, it was possible for a player some way back from the lead to suddenly find themselves lynched, without having a chance to claim or otherwise defend themselves from their accusers.
We now know who the double-voters are, so we can take into account the effects of their powers when calculating how close a vote race is, so that isn’t so much of a problem. We could still have a problem if Lord Phere is instructed to vote again; remember the votes are almost certainly placed at the behest of a non-Town power.
Normal’s unvote raised my eyebrows as well; her unvote has almost completely wiped out then Townie feeling I was developing about her. I’m not going to blame you for jumping off the Astral wagon after Normal did, even though I think staying on the wagon was probably the right thing.
Assuming my headache lets up (and it’s responded to the migraine-killer so I might well be ok) I’ll try and review the other votes tonight (tomorrow being given over to interview prep).
See you soon.
Wow, Choie, you are really becoming the queen of misdirects in my eyes.. you give this explanation:
However this is when Astral jumped off the bandwagon.
And this is you, jumping on it - some time LATER,
Then you interacted heaps for hours, being vocal all the while about how your vote should be elsewhere, but maintaining your vote.
Until finally changing it after you’d been away for another day:
just breaking this here to say - nice setup for the reframe!
And so people look back at this one and clear you for it. Nice job.
Gah. Remember when I said hunting quotes takes too much time ? Now I have to skip breakfast to get to school. Joy.
I think this is the longest Night I’ve ever been a part of. 
No joke.
Wall of Words alert!
Tanaer, you somehow completely missed the actual quote when Normal first unvoted Astral. The one that puts all this in context. Funny, that.
Here’s how it went down, this time the unexpurgated version.
In #1172 I post the vote talley, which shows Astral with five votes: three from AITP and two from Normal and septimus; I have my vote on fubbles. No one has any votes on PetW.
In response, Normal says she doesn’t want to reduce the votes on Astral even though her gut is telling her that PetW is scum. She also calls my vote for fubbles worthless.
I respond and explain my position on fubbles in #1177
Silver Jan votes for Astral in #1202
Visorslash says we need a clear lynch, votes for Astral
Visorslash and Normal tag-team on pressuring me to move my vote from fubbles. Here’s Normal’s response in #1211:
She goes on to think I’m scummy, and again exhorts me to share whom I think is scummy, even though I’ve already said I think fubbles is scummy, but that’s not good enough because she doesn’t think fubbles is scummy. So I’ve just told her whom I think is scum, but nope, not good enough. Tons of pressure on me to get on the bandwagon, don’t waste my vote on someone who has no chance of being voted out, don’t vote my instincts, join a bandwagon join a bandwagon join a motherfuckin’ bandwagon!
So what happens next? Does Normal stay staunchly on the bandwagon, because dammit, that’s what a Townie person should do, and oh, if only choie were as utterly Townie as Normal, because she’ll always do what’s best for Town and stick on the bandwagon…
FX: RECORD SCRATCH
That’s #1211, two posts later than her exhortation for me to hop on a bandwagon. Colors bleached, but she screwed up the code in this post, which is why she posted a second time–the post Tanaer chose to quote from, probably because it was context-free, unlike the actually damning post.
I leave for a little bit, come back, discover that after all her, gnarlycharlie and Visorslash’s haranguing, Normal has hypocritically switched her vote to PetW. I say basically fuck it, I’ll vote for Astral and prove myself a good little townie just like you and Visorslash want me to do.
I’m trying to do what Normal and others have been pressuring me to do, even though Normal herself isn’t doing it, because they are more experienced and y’know, maybe I’m wrong. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth but I do as the majority of the posters want me to do.
Normal admits she’s a hypocrite but she’s still right. ooookay. Meanwhile, Tanaer votes for Astral as well.
#1238, I take offense at this because she was the one who had hopped on the Astral train first (even after the creepy triple-voter voted for him), and she’d bullied me into hopping onto the bandwagon as well. So I give her the scummy scummy scum list she asked me for and still include fubbles in my #1 slot, with her at #2.
Normal claims she’s not blamingg Guiri for the Astral votes, it’s just odd that everyone’s voting for Astral because of Guiri. Totally a different thing!
I go ballistic at this point (I admit i was having a really bad day IRL so I was more emotional than usual).
A day goes by. Astral gives an awesome goodbye speech. I apologize in advance for feeling confused and letting people bullyrag me (still don’t know if that’s the right term) but I’m torn between voting my conscience and voting the way other alleged townspeople want me to do. Basically I’m a big fat wimp, which I totally cop to.
Then, presumably worried that Astral’s extremely townie-sounding goodbye speech might actual change minds, Normal is swift to change her vote again:
Not seeing this for nearly an entire day, when I return and spot this (and septimus’s also jumping back on the Astral bandwagon he’d been on originally) I can’t take it anymore. Post #1411:
So, sorry for the Wall of Words, but that’s the full history of why I voted fubbles, switched to Astral after all the pressure on three fronts, saw Normal’s back/forth bullshit votes once Astral’s valedictory speech convinced many of us that yes, he was Town, and decided that I was sick and tired of being pushed into doing something I didn’t want, and had never wanted, to do. Hence my unvote of Astral.
As I said, it’s certainly possible Normal did all this as a townie, just an incredibly wrongheaded and manipulative one. (Townies can be manipulative too.) But for me it makes a lot more sense if she’s scum.
Of course now I’m looking at Tanaer for so obviously cutting out the context of Normal’s PetW vote in order to misrepresent my description of how things were going. MHaye remembers it the same way, so it’s not just me who can recall how all this went down.
Butts in
Y’know, if you stopped investing so much emotion into the game, you might actually enjoy it.
Butts out
I wouldn’t play the game if I didn’t enjoy it, son. We all enjoy it for different reasons. I like the thrust and parry and roleplaying (though I always wish there were more of that involved). You seem to enjoy it for the chance to be misanthropic. De gustibus.
Well, I really didn’t think I was being bullshitty or hypocritical there – the logic was clear enough in my mind, anyway. PetW had had a substantial bandwagon at one point (that was actually my reason for switching away from him in the first place), and I pointed that out in my big complaint post. I had no reason to believe it might not come again should I try to get it started, and hope to provide more information down the road than just a silly ten person bandwagon on Astral.
And while I appreciate that a townie could read my complaint post and take it as “everybody get on one and only one bandwagon right now or I will bite you dammit”, please not that’s not actually what I SAID. What I said, and what I actually wanted, was for the non-voters and the people with extraneous votes such as (imo) the ones on fubbleskag, the one on scathach, and any others I’m not thinking of right now, to take a position on someone who WAS a threat to be lynched. Those being, IMO at the time, Astral, MHaye, Weedy, Gadarene and PetW.
I had no expectation that everyone would join the same bandwagon and didn’t even want it – it was my opinion that there was time enough in the day to sort out two or three options, but not seven or eight. I ultimately left the Astral wagon for the exact same reason I had earlier left PetW’s: it had just kicked up too damn fast and was threatening to run away with the vote by way too much more than necessary, and I hate that.
Call me a bully if you want, call my methods harmful or anti-town if you feel that way, but at least try to understand where I’m coming from.
I think choie’s tone this game is very different to her past couple. She seems to me to be soft-pushing and smudging a lot of people, which is not something I saw her do before.
Also her posts are much less coherent, and she jumps around a lot.
If I get time, I’ll go back and quote to show what I mean.
Her reply to Tanaer is an example of the kind of agitating I mean. “You seems to have missed…” followed by … “no doubt quoted that one because it’s context-free”. Town choie seems like she would be thinking about the possibility that Tanaer could have missed a post, or chosen the post with the actual unvote because that’s the ‘right’ post, rather than instantly accusing her of scummy motivations. That’s not the best example, because choie might just be OMGUSing as a Townie, but it’s far from the only time choie puts the worst spin possible on someone.
I think Choie should be lynched when the phase ever changes.
And yes, it makes me see choie as Scummy, since I didn’t actually state that.
I finally have some play time this weekend and all my games are full.stop.
You can reread, yo.
What do you think of choie / realitytrip / Red Skeezix?
reality trip and red have not given much of anything to go on.
choie either put big foot in mouth in night thread or was just frustrated. so until a new day dawns I dont’ have much for you there
I don’t know, Weedy – choie’s certainly not soft-pushing or smudging me. At least in respect to me she’s a dead ringer for her behavior in De’endee, when she refused to believe that my defense of Silver Jan could be town-motivated. I’d really like to see your further comparisons.
RT actually has a decent number of posts. Skeezix made two votes in his short period of being around. Choie’s said a lot prior to the night thread. You can do better, surely?