Mafia Reunion - Day Two

[snfaulkner]

@paulwhoisaghost

Why can’t they be both?

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I’m sure they could be. FuckifIknow what is really going on.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@paulwhoisaghost

Who cares about the chances… it would be a brilliant victory and the game would be over… this game is punishment… it’s way too much to keep up with. I mean… I’m replying to a post that is over 20 pages back I believe… we should be praying you’re right. But I highly doubt it… too easy to meet the wincon early game.

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** I think maybe I should clarify that this post was in a playful spirit. I’m having a blast and don’t want you mods to think I regret subbing in.

Any way we can have a thread that is locked and pinned that is just the rules and a copy of the roles.doc? It would be easier for players on phone to refer to them. Might help if people were to take up using Tapatalk to avoid the Mal ware issues. It would definitely help me.**

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[Biotop]

@paulwhoisaghost

** I think maybe I should clarify that this post was in a playful spirit. I’m having a blast and don’t want you mods to think I regret subbing in.

Any way we can have a thread that is locked and pinned that is just the rules and a copy of the roles.doc? It would be easier for players on phone to refer to them. Might help if people were to take up using Tapatalk to avoid the Mal ware issues. It would definitely help me.**

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I am not complaining either. A marathon may be grueling, but that’s part of the reason to run it.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Koldanar

I agree - I assume that Suburban got targeted because of the post count, absent any suspicions (and I certainly didn’t pick anything up from his posting).

Those of us (and I include myself) that aren’t posting enough aren’t helping much, so we should get louder.

I’m still catching up, but to those who didn’t post on day 1 - what’s your reasoning? I can see life getting in the way on weekends, but to not make a day 1 vote at all doesn’t help anyone here.

If
Well… my excuse is that I subbed in toDay… what’s yours? You popped in and posted here, but that’s it? Did I miss something?

I admit to skimming posts based on my interest in there discussion content, but I didn’t see anything else by Koldanar. Can someone on pc check his posts in this thread?

I know people are having trouble keeping up, but dont try to call out other non participants. Just do your best and be honest about how far behind you are. Otherwise it just says “I know I’m lurking…but look at those lurkers instead.”

Come on guys. I subbed in at the start of D2… end of N1… and I’m on a phone… if I can participate you can too… read what’s current and go back if you need to fill in the blanks or are up to speed on current discussion issues.

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[LightFoot]

@Sunny_Daze

SP was the detective. He could investigate and get a result once per Day (per the roles doc). He didn’t claim, but he may have had information on Plumpudding. Now, I don’t know if once per Day means at noon, at Dawn, or what, (because you probably missed the part where I was introduced as the noob in the group), but that is what my statement about SP’s role causing me to take another look at PP meant.

While we’re on the topic, SP did a long analysis post on most of the posts of PP on D1 which found a high fluff to content ratio. Included, but spoilered for length. Also, not snipped, so there is extraneous content.

Mod told us in game Day actions need be in before EOD

actions resolve at Dawn or Dusk ( the rules) so results should be given then…
using the n00b card too much may get you lynched

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Sunny_Daze

SP was the detective. He could investigate and get a result once per Day (per the roles doc). He didn’t claim, but he may have had information on Plumpudding. Now, I don’t know if once per Day means at noon, at Dawn, or what, (because you probably missed the part where I was introduced as the noob in the group), but that is what my statement about SP’s role causing me to take another look at PP meant.

While we’re on the topic, SP did a long analysis post on most of the posts of PP on D1 which found a high fluff to content ratio. Included, but spoilered for length. Also, not snipped, so there is extraneous content.

Umm… huh? It was my understanding that Day actions would resolve at Dusk and results given with the start of Night.

Did I miss something?

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[paulwhoisaghost]

@LightFoot

Mod told us in game Day actions need be in before EOD

actions resolve at Dawn or Dusk ( the rules) so results should be given then…
using the n00b card too much may get you lynched

Ok… thank you… I’m not crazy.

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[LightFoot]

@paulwhoisaghost

You don’t think town would benefit from them block voting?

if they are all Town their skill set does not give them much for extra knowledge who decides
who to vote and why?

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Biotop

I am not complaining either. A marathon may be grueling, but that’s part of the reason to run it.

They say a wise man climbs mount Fuji once, only a fool climbs it twice.

I’ve done it three times… I think challenges and difficulty make us better people. Enjoy the hard things while they are only hard and not potentially lethal.

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[LightFoot]

@paulwhoisaghost

If
~~
I admit to skimming posts based on my interest in there discussion content, but I didn’t see anything else by Koldanar. Can someone on pc check his posts in this thread?

sniped

Post 267 this Day I addressed it.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@LightFoot

if they are all Town their skill set does not give them much for extra knowledge who decides
who to vote and why?

They do… they can debate amongst themselves and consider our input. They decide together who to vote for… it will be beneficial to town no matter what. If they are all scum their votes will either be pro-town so they can remain hidden or they will be anti-town and it gives us a very small pond to fish in. If it’s a mix bag, it forces the scum to play along or be outed. If they are all town then we can trust they will vote in a pro-town manner. It relies on them working as a team within the larger town team… they treat each other as masons without private communication and the rest of us go on about our business… until we have more info or they give us a reason not to let them live. Make it scum problem… not ours…until it becomes evident that they aren’t town, we can afford to look elsewhere for our lynches.

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[LightFoot]

NETA koldanar has a total of 5 posts so far toDay since PwiaG asked

[nesta]

@Chronos

…
But that’s why I said I was brainstorming: I saw new information, spent about two minutes coming up with an idea based on that information, couldn’t tell if the idea would work or not, and so opened it up for discussion. The result of which discussion seems to be that, due to the Consigliere/Omega’s watching power, the plan has a high chance of outing the Vig, which is an angle that I didn’t think of in the two minutes before I posted. Is not thinking of every possible power interaction, in a game this complicated, Scummy?

Chronos, this is what I find suspicious: that you seemingly put so little thought into a plan that required so much cooperation. When I read your plan and the reaction to it my first thought was that if brewha is town, and has a Vig switch, then it’s likely that the other Vig switch is controlled by scum. Your plan would commit brewha to setting his switch/toggle to “off”, leaving the scum player the option to leave theirs ”on”. If the Vig then targets brewha, according to plan, then brewha dies.

What does that tell us? If brewha is town, it tells us he was telling the truth that he was town, and he had the specific switch he claimed since town rarely lie. This would come at the cost of the Vig killing a townie.

It would also answer the question of whether switch holder status would be revealed on death. My gut feeling is that scum want to know this more than town. If they have switches controlling town powers, and think that once the other switcher is dead they control that power, they really want to know how to set said switch. I don’t think town is as invested in knowing when the second switch is out of the picture.

@Chronos

If my guess is right, then (if Batman is switchable at all), his switches are held one each by Mafia and Wolves. Who might feel disinclined to heed any suggestions we might give them about best use of those switches.

This post was prior to brewha claiming the Vig switch. Chronos guesses that both scum factions control Batman.

It was in reply to brewha’s just previous post asking (in hindsight) how to handle his switch:

@brewha

So, it’s a pretty safe bet that the pro town vigillante killed Colby. He has to kill every night and the runner up to lynch is as pro-town a choice to make as any.

Unless, the town vig is a switchable power.

Should we talk about whether or not we want those switch holders to attempt to disable the vig? Or, should we let Batman do his thing and hope that he gets scum at night?

[Note: the paranoia in me says that these back to back posts could be a scum plan, but I don’t really believe that. Occam’s razor and all.]

This was followed up 12 minutes later with brewha’s claim:

@brewha

Your guess is at least partially wrong. I’ve got to believe that any information is good information and realize that I’ll likely be putting a target on my back by either town that don’t believe me or by either of the scum factions that think I’m a viable target.

I got my first PM saying that I am just a plain vanilla townie. Then, a couple of days later, got a PM saying that I had the Batman switch and that there was one more just like it.

It seems to me that a great deal of effort was put into the switch mechanics of this game and we’ll have a better shot of winning if we figure out how to use it.

I didn’t want to ellude to a Magic Bag - so I’ll come out and completely claim. I’m a vanilla townie with a switch to a pro town role. What do I do with it?

[Still trying to ignore my paranoia, but this does seem like it could be scripted.]

brewha seems to be trying to figure out the switch:

@brewha

If that’s the case, I’m the off switcher. My PM states that each night the switch is turned on. I can either turn it off or leave it alone.

If it’s a balanced system, I gotta believe there’s a scum on switcher.

Then again, how would that work? If the default is on, and they decide to switch it on, what would happen?

My PM specifically says that I can turn it off - it doesn’t say that I can toggle it to the other position.

[This lessens my paranoia about brewha a bit. Chronos seems to understand the XOR switch idea but brewha doesn’t.]

So brewha thinks if it’s balanced (symmetrical) then scum should have the other switch.

Finally, Chronos’s plan (quoted in full):

@Chronos

I’m not certain that brewha’s revelation necessarily makes him Town, but I am certain that it’s ballsy. I like that. And I think that, one way or the other, him saying that is going to end up helping Town. If he’s telling the truth, it’s already given us some information on the switches, and will probably give more as time goes on. For instance, if he dies, we’ll (maybe) find out what happens to switches held by dead players. It also, assuming that both Batman switches are held by Town, gives us the opportunity to coordinate their use to turn off the Vig, if we choose: We can say things like “brewha should flip his switch and the other switcher should not”, or the like, when we couldn’t before say “Switcher one should flip his switch and switcher two should not”, because they wouldn’t know which of them was one or two. It also possibly paints a target on brewha, even though he’s a claimed vanilla Townie, which is probably good (and even better, of course, if he’s actually lying).

Just brainstorming, here: What if we plan the following for toNight, that brewha flips his switch, the other switcher does not, and Batman targets brewha? If brewha is lying about holding the switch, and the real switch-holders don’t turn off Batman, then we have a dead liar, which is good. If brewha is telling the full truth, and the other switcher is also Town, then nobody gets hurt, and we have a reason to believe brewha (and also whoever eventually claims to be the other switcher).

The two failure cases I can think of are, first, if brewha is Scum and one of his team (him or another; it matters little which) really does have the switch, in which case we might become inclined to incorrectly trust him, or second, if brewha is telling the truth, and really is a Townie with a Batman switch, but the other switch-holder is Scum, cancels out his switch, and lets him die. I don’t think that either of these failure cases is actually all that bad: In the first, brewha’s team would be taking the chance that the other switch is held by the other Scum team, who is quite happy about the Vigilante successfully killing as long as it’s targeted at anyone but them, and who could thus foil the plan. In the second, we’d learn that the other Batman switcher was held by someone untrustworthy, which would tell us that the switches are not distributed in a symmetric manner.

We might well lose the services of the Vigilante for a night in this plan, but that’s OK, because a mandatory vig is probably a net liability to Town early in the game: An optional Vig at this point should probably be choosing not to kill anyway.

[extra bolding mine]

My first takeaway is that Chronos is most concerned about deciphering the distribution and reveals of switches. My second takeaway is that he feels like the Vig killing a townie is worth the information that switches are not distrusted in a symmetric manner. This doesn’t make sense to me. To me, a symmetric manner would be that the two switches are held by two different, oppositional, parties. Chronos seems focused on symmetric as in the same team. Am I reading that wrong?

I’m not voting for Chronos yet because I can’t decide if his motivation for this post was to try to test brewha’s claim, or to exploit it to get the Vig to kill him while giving information about switches. I think Chronos is a smart player, which doesn’t jive with the former when the likely result is a dead townie, but now that I review the plan seems so prone to failure I’m not sure I can see the scum motivation either.

I really don’t think they are both scum… but maybe? brewha did seem awfully willing to go along with it. But nah… that’s just paranoia.

Still FOS Chronos
I think brewha is probably town

[LightFoot]

@paulwhoisaghost

They do… they can debate amongst themselves and consider our input. They decide together who to vote for… it will be beneficial to town no matter what. If they are all scum their votes will either be pro-town so they can remain hidden or they will be anti-town and it gives us a very small pond to fish in. If it’s a mix bag, it forces the scum to play along or be outed. If they are all town then we can trust they will vote in a pro-town manner. It relies on them working as a team within the larger town team… they treat each other as masons without private communication and the rest of us go on about our business… until we have more info or they give us a reason not to let them live. Make it scum problem… not ours…until it becomes evident that they aren’t town, we can afford to look elsewhere for our lynches.

S

it might work but we can’t do anything but sit and watch if they do II guess

[paulwhoisaghost]

@LightFoot

if they are all Town their skill set does not give them much for extra knowledge who decides
who to vote and why?

We could even form other groups that are made up of people who are leaning toward each other being town and debate how they should vote as a group. I think now is too soon for this to work, but since we are down so many power roles already I thought about asking all nillas to claim. Scum are broken up into two groups, so there is the possibility of cross fire. We just haven’t seen it yet. Scum want to kill power roles and switch holders… if nillas claim it narrows down the pool for scum to hunt in but increases the chances they’ll hit each other. Brewha is gonna be killed if town… I suspect that Capt and Crys will be scum targets before too long too… this could be devastating for town…

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[paulwhoisaghost]

@LightFoot

NETA koldanar has a total of 5 posts so far toDay since PwiaG asked

Thank you

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[nesta]

@nesta

Your plan would commit brewha to setting his switch/toggle to “off”, leaving the scum player the option to leave theirs ”on”. If the Vig then targets brewha, according to plan, then brewha dies.

I really should preview more carefully. If the plan committed brewha to setting the switch to “off” the scum would also set theirs to “off”, leaving the Vig kill active to kill brewha.

That’s what I meant.

[LightFoot]

** nesta ** I am not quoting your post but I am responding to it.
consider- ** Chronos ** is a wolf and wolves don’t have the ’ other’ vig switch / or v/v

with 2 ‘scum’ factions this is a possibility

[LightFoot]

[quote=“paulwhoisaghost, post:475, topic:777425”]

We could even form other groups that are made up of people who are leaning toward each other being town and debate how they should vote as a group. I think now is too soon for this to work, but since we are down so many power roles already I thought about asking all nillas to claim. Scum are broken up into two groups, so there is the possibility of cross fire. We just haven’t seen it yet. Scum want to kill power roles and switch holders… if nillas claim it narrows down the pool for scum to hunt in but increases the chances they’ll hit each other. Brewha is gonna be killed if town… I suspect that Capt and Crys will be scum targets before too long too… this could be devastating for town…

/

[QUOTE]
out all the 'nillas – have you lost your Mafia mind? I am tired but this is still :smack: :eek:

[LightFoot]

I don’t want to edit the post above - Y’all get what is is supposed to be, right?