[QUOTE=bufftabby]
I’m thinking this is a last ditch effort to find somebody, anybody to replace you on the lynch.
[/QUOTE]
Time will bear me out on this one.
Anyhow, I don’t know zuma very well - I haven’t participated in every Mafia game. Is he a frequent player? If so is it normal for him to post this little?
[QUOTE=peekercpa]
I am trying to generate some type of discussion. The only problem is that when any type of discussion is initiated by a “newb” we got shot down so quick that the natural inclination is to put your tail between your legs and run.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, I noticed this when I was reviewing the thread for anything else to pass on.
Don’t worry about being shot down. Post what you think is relevant. It’s frustrating, very admittedly, when nobody seems to share your point of view. But, keep in mind that intimidating people into not posting is anti-Town behavior. Call it out. 
Ultimately, of course, the more you post the easier it is to get votes, but being dead isn’t so bad if you helped your team. Sadly, this early it’s still easier to cause confusion, but getting stuff on the written record is important nonetheless.
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
You are obviously free to vote for whomever you please, but I definitely do not think it is fair to say “I think the things that are pinging people about fluid are indicators of a lack of knowledge about who has what role.” At the very least, that’s not what’s pinging me about fluid, as far as I know (Maybe I’m not understanding you - what indicators do you mean?). Please review my posts #633 and #645 to read what I found suspicious about her activities yesterDay. Blaster and fluid have been trading arguments about the timing and number of votes for whom (which is important), but you have to take into consideration her stated reason for changing her vote to pedescribe as well as the timing. Since you do not find her scummy, I’d be interested in hearing from you about her voting yesterDay and your response to my case against her.
[/QUOTE]
Sure thing.
Now I want to make this very clear, I am in no way convinced fluid is not scum, I just personally feel that the behavior she is displaying is more comon in town than in scum and that we need something more solid if we are going to lynch her. She very well may be scum, but right now nothing she is doing says scum to me.
Since you gave me two handy posts to refer to (thanks for that), I will take a second look at them.
#633 is more or less a recap of her vote for pedescribe. I agree it was a vote based on faulty logic, and there is a chance that it was placed because she was looking for a reason to bail off of MTS. It could have been very sloppy scum play BUT in my experiance scum tend to not be this sloppy. Rememer, scum are just as smart as you. If someone does something so scummy that it looks like the scum gift wrapped themselves and handed you a present, it is proably a townie who wasn’t thinking things through.
#645
This is a nice piece of analysis, and really it is this kind of behavior that keeps me from saying that the bandwagon against fluid is totally misdirected. IF she and Mad plotted to have a fight Day 2 and IF it got out of hand (as these things sometimes do) and IF fluid overplayed the argument to start with and IF fluid got so freaked out by the Mad bandwagon that she started grasping at straws it is very possible that what you posit in this post is correct.
There are a few big if’s in there, but it is not out of the realm of plausability.
On the other hand. IF fluid was town, and IF she realized that the case against Mad wasn’t really all that good and she had just been pushing him hard to see if he cracked (something that players do) the exact same thing could have happened.
How do I feel about it. I don’t know, I don’t feel strongly enough about it to think fluid should be the primary target yet. Her back and forth with BlaM add to my feelings of misgiving about the lynch. I think we as a town are a bit tunnel vissioned right now.
After reading your post #645 I will say that you very well may be right, but that the case is still weak and that there are other players who were involved in the pedescribe bandwagon that I think probably warrant a closer look than fluid. We have some time, we shouldn’t get too hung up on a single player.
But, if we actually look at other people and fluid still seems the scummiest, I wouldn’t object to her lynch.
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
Anyhow, I don’t know zuma very well - I haven’t participated in every Mafia game. Is he a frequent player? If so is it normal for him to post this little?
[/QUOTE]
Yes and yes. Though he seems to be a bit extra quiet this time around.
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
Time will bear me out on this one.
Anyhow, I don’t know zuma very well - I haven’t participated in every Mafia game. Is he a frequent player? If so is it normal for him to post this little?
[/QUOTE]
I’ve only watched him in you-solve-it, and he wasn’t quiet like this. I am waiting to see his explanation before I jump to any conclusions. But he is certainly more experienced than I am, as well as much quieter than I have been. Do you have any comments on the oddness of calling me experienced, or the bit about how I’m behaving atypically by not having new ideas? I certainly pointed out how these were not valid accusations.
FWIW, I was much more active last game, since I was unemployed, and then in training in a classroom setting. Really, I responded to your accusations more because they rang so false and made me more suspicious of you than from a perceived need to defend myself. Hell, I could be wrong about you, but I don’t think I am. I definitely do find you scummiest at the moment. If you’re not, I do know who to go after next. We’ll see, eh?
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
FWIW, I think this is a crock of shit. Voting for a scum player makes them feel they’re doing bad, too.
[/quote]
Agreed, I like lists.
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
Many of them are provided upthread, but like I said, it’s a vibe list. I won’t have the opportunity to fill it out later.
[/quote]
This on the other hand is bullshit. Even if you provided the reasoning elsewhere if you write a list, you need to reiterate your reasoning.
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
I don’t know why it is so difficult to understand that one can change one’s mind based on new information. I seem to have to continue reiterating this point over and over with you, and it sounds as if you’re being deliberately obtuse, one of the reasons I’m voting for you.
[/quote]
This is a bad reason to vote for someone, and I think you know it.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
This on the other hand is bullshit. Even if you provided the reasoning elsewhere if you write a list, you need to reiterate your reasoning.
[/quote]
All right. Make me repeat myself.
Shadow Facts: He was pretty fast on the trigger to accuse me today and did so yesterday. Considering even yesterday it was pretty obvious that I’d be a lynch target today, why get his hands dirty? Also, MTS nodded him as town in his “detective” reveal, and I doubt he’d call attention to a scum target. Strong town.
Nanook of the North Shore: His first vote of the day, on Day 1, was for MTS. Unlikely for scum to target Lead Assassin especially as a not-so-experienced player. Town.
pedescribe: He’s been fairly good about participating again today, particularly with some half-decent analysis early on. He didn’t crack under pressure yesterday. He’s put some decent work into recapping my posts and hasn’t seemed too eager to lynch (granted, he could be saving his vote til the last minute). Townish.
WF Tomba, peekercpa, Ice Cream Man - I simply haven’t gotten any pings off of these guys. They’ve tried to participate a decent amount (the first two especially). There could be scum in this list, but I have no idea which. Slight townish.
Perhaps on its own, but in the context of how Blaster Master has been playing this game, and Blaster Master as an individual, I find it pretty characteristic of his scum mode. Granted, I haven’t seen a ton of that, but being difficult and antagonistic without the math/facts to back it up to me is a scum indicator in Blaster Master.
To elaborate on my ‘Blaster Master is scum’ argument.
The case for:
Less actual quotes or evidence from upthread. I’ll provide evidence and he’ll try to refute it but doesn’t bring up any of his own.
Jumping on on already targeted player who is a likely lynch candidate (yours truly) without consideration of any other candidates. In fact, he’s shaped the discussion to the exclusion of anyone else but myself. If he had suspicions about other players, he’d be bringing them forward. After all, he’s a good night kill candidate as an experienced player.
Speaking of which, why isn’t he dead? He’s a juicy night kill candidate.
Less Blastermath than usual.
Circular arguments. Either I’m skipping over tiny portions of his argument or I’m missing “the big picture”. Constantly changing the tactics of attack against me, never showing any sign of doubt or the possibility he might be wrong, never considering any argument - just dissecting them.
The case against:
Though we haven’t seen as much Blastermath this game but there are few facts to go on in the game setup.
His focus on me could be due to the fact that I’ve been aggressively defending myself. He’s an aggressive player, too, so not surprising that we’d bonk heads.
He might not be dead because of some reason we don’t know about. It’s fairly easy to assume why sitnam is dead (detective candidate), it’s hard to say why Queen of Town was a better candidate than Blaster Master, or if there were other things like hidden powers at work.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
#633 is more or less a recap of her vote for pedescribe. I agree it was a vote based on faulty logic, and there is a chance that it was placed because she was looking for a reason to bail off of MTS. It could have been very sloppy scum play BUT in my experiance scum tend to not be this sloppy. Rememer, scum are just as smart as you. If someone does something so scummy that it looks like the scum gift wrapped themselves and handed you a present, it is proably a townie who wasn’t thinking things through.
[/QUOTE]
NAF, thanks for the detailed answer. I want to respond right now just to this point, and I will do so by quoting fluiddruid from yesterday, all regarding MadTheSwine:
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
I’m not totally convinced you’re scum - if you’re scum, you’re playing ham-handedly.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
Further, as I said, while I believe MadTheSwine has a scummy “vibe” and is acting somewhat anti-Town by being defensive and difficult, I think he’s acting rather ham-handedly for scum, particularly scum who’s played before. I just didn’t have a better candidate at the time. Now, I feel that I do. I think that it’s more likely that pedescribe is a new player who ended up scum than I think that MadTheSwine is playing scum poorly.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
The best evidence against MadTheSwine is his quickness to bring up the Detective exposing him/herself. I haven’t forgotten this but it is a bit ham-handed for an experienced player (as I have repeatedly explained)
[/QUOTE]
Obviously, Mad was scum, fluid’s protestations about his “experience” aside. So I am wary of giving too much weight to someone’s alleged experience. I am not saying I think scum are dumb - of course we should assume they are smart, but that doesn’t mean they don’t slip up, experience or no. So I personally don’t find the “they’re too smart/experienced for that” argument compelling. I should also point out that I don’t think fluid (or Mad, for that matter) did something “so scummy that it looks like the scum gift wrapped themselves and handed [me] a present.” Neither did anything so obvious - I just happened to pick on some things they did that led me to believe they are both scum. I was right about Mad and I’m feeling pretty good about fluid, too. YMMV.
Can anyone clarify when the Day ends?
All Days end on Thursdays at 4:00PM EDT.
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
All Days end on Thursdays at 4:00PM EDT.
[/QUOTE]
Since you’re here, hows about a vote count?
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Since you’re here, hows about a vote count?
[/QUOTE]
There has been exactly one vote since the last vote count. Geeez 
1 - Blaster Master (fluiddruid)
1 - zuma (peekercpa)
1 - WF Tomba (Nanook of the North Shore)
5 - fluiddruid (ShadowFacts, Mind Wanderer, WF Tomba, Blaster Master, bufftabby)
Oeahhh…I was confused.
I’m pretty sure that:
W F Tomba
and
Shadow Facts
are town. Since lists are ‘in’, I wanted to point that out. Also, it makes a good starting place.
Bufftabby has been pinging the hell outta me. I have no solid leads (for those hysterical), but I’m suspicious of her.
Remember when I said that I thought Blaster Master was leading the new guys (including me) around by the nose? Still feeling that. Especially with this argument that reminds me of Martin Hyde and Diogenes the Cynic butting heads in the pit. ::shudder::
Is it enough for me to vote? No. I haven’t mentioned him again (significantly) because the only evedince after early day 1 was today. I’d need more evidence on day three for a sudden shift of behaivor.
Umm…Nanook. I won’t blame you for the vote change, since I can totally see the gut reaction thing. Aside from that, there isn’t too much evidence, so no go there.
I agree with fluiddruid that MindWanderer is overly clean, and with peekercpa that zuma is overly clean. If I had to hazard a guess of who the scum are, I’d say
–one of fluiddruid, BlasterMaster, or bufftabby
–one of zuma or MindWanderer
–and one of IceCreamMan, Nanook, peekercpa, or NAF1138
plus MadTheSwine of course.
(speaking of which, where is IceCreamMan? When I was compiling this list, I had to go back and look to make sure I wasn’t accusing a dead man. Oh, and Shadow Facts, if you’re scum, you’re my mentor for the first game I play scum.)
I am going to be DECISIVE halfway through the day and act on a random intuition 
.
vote bufftabby
I will provide evidence as soon as I find some.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Oeahhh…I was confused.
I’m pretty sure that:
W F Tomba
and
Shadow Facts
are town. Since lists are ‘in’, I wanted to point that out. Also, it makes a good starting place.
Bufftabby has been pinging the hell outta me. I have no solid leads (for those hysterical), but I’m suspicious of her.
Remember when I said that I thought Blaster Master was leading the new guys (including me) around by the nose? Still feeling that. Especially with this argument that reminds me of Martin Hyde and Diogenes the Cynic butting heads in the pit. ::shudder::
Is it enough for me to vote? No. I haven’t mentioned him again (significantly) because the only evedince after early day 1 was today. I’d need more evidence on day three for a sudden shift of behaivor.
Umm…Nanook. I won’t blame you for the vote change, since I can totally see the gut reaction thing. Aside from that, there isn’t too much evidence, so no go there.
I agree with fluiddruid that MindWanderer is overly clean, and with peekercpa that zuma is overly clean. If I had to hazard a guess of who the scum are, I’d say
–one of fluiddruid, BlasterMaster, or bufftabby
–one of zuma or MindWanderer
–and one of IceCreamMan, Nanook, peekercpa, or NAF1138
plus MadTheSwine of course.
(speaking of which, where is IceCreamMan? When I was compiling this list, I had to go back and look to make sure I wasn’t accusing a dead man. Oh, and Shadow Facts, if you’re scum, you’re my mentor for the first game I play scum.)
I am going to be DECISIVE halfway through the day and act on a random intuition 
.
vote bufftabby
I will provide evidence as soon as I find some.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. Ok, so if you could, would you mind telling us why you think these things. Not that you are wrong, but I like to be able to keep up with the conversation. The only things I really know are, you aren’t a fan of BlaM’s (understandable) and think that zuma and peekercpa are too clean. I follow you there too. Why the pairings on the list though? That I don’t get.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Why the pairings on the list though? That I don’t get.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, kudos for laying out your opinions but I don’t get this either. Even if I turned up scum, there’s no reason why Blaster Master wouldn’t be (unless it came down very close); if I’m town, he could be misled Town. Same for bufftabby. Actually, especially for bufftabby (whose vote for me came much later).
Keep in mind, votes really don’t count for as much until they’re final. Let’s say bufftabby and I are both scum. I’m far and away vote leader and virtually no other candidates are being seriously considered. While a last minute vote change is very risky, holding off voting for any leading candidates for the whole game tends to be picked out, so if bufftabby thought I was likely to be lynched with or without her (not unlikely) then it makes sense to vote for me.
Just something to keep in mind, pedescribe - consider not just the vote, but the reason for the vote, the timing of the vote, the relative weight of the vote and the finality/non-finality of the vote.
It was akcwardly put, since it was originally one thing but morphed into another. What I meant was that, the probability–in my opinion–of these people being scum is this:
(zuma/mindwanderer)>(fluiddruid/blastermaster/bufftabby)>(icecreamman/peekercpa/nanookofthenorth/naf1138)
if and only if these people are taken as a group. If I try to do single people, I end up with circular > signs.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
It was akcwardly put, since it was originally one thing but morphed into another. What I meant was that, the probability–in my opinion–of these people being scum is this:
(zuma/mindwanderer)>(fluiddruid/blastermaster/bufftabby)>(icecreamman/peekercpa/nanookofthenorth/naf1138)
if and only if these people are taken as a group. If I try to do single people, I end up with circular > signs.
[/QUOTE]
I’m still confused… If zuma and mindwanderer have the greatest possibility of scum (in your mind), why did you vote for bufftabby?
Because they are groups, not people. If zumamindwanderer were a single entity, I would vote for him for sure. As it is, I think that bufftabby, by herself, is more suspicious than anyone else by themselves. Also there is that other people have made cases against zuma and MindWanderer, wheras if bufftabby is scum, and I don’t point out the possiblity, she’ll go completly under the radar.
If I don’t find sufficient evidence, I’ll switch my vote, though.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Wow. Ok, so if you could, would you mind telling us why you think these things. Not that you are wrong, but I like to be able to keep up with the conversation. The only things I really know are, you aren’t a fan of BlaM’s (understandable) and think that zuma and peekercpa are too clean. I follow you there too. Why the pairings on the list though? That I don’t get.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t get that he thought that I was overly clean but was merely agreeing with me about zuma being overly clean. pedescribe if I have misunderstood please let me know.
Also, I don’t necessarily think zuma is clean, merely that his silence makes it impossible to read one way or the other. As such I don’t see how this helps the town at all.