Mafia: Simpletown

Day 1 reread finished. My impression at the end of it leads me to believe that of the two, bufftabby is scummier than zuma/roosh.

At the beginning of Day 2, zuma has a typically weird zuma moment. Look at posts 457 through 460 and 462-463. This is the type of thing that leads me to call him erratic. What’s most interesting about it is to contrast his reaction, after the death of a townie, to his reaction in the Batman game after Day 1, which had a scum be lynched. It strikes me as a minor point in his favor.

Post 496 by bufftabby is interesting. She seems to be snuggling up to Mad the Lead Assassin himself. Not necessarily a tell, but interesting nonetheless.

buff voted for Mad in post 615, with barely any reasoning and a lot of hemming and hawing about doing so. It strikes me as an attempt to get a vote on the bandwagon of a scumbuddy for townie cred, without wanting to fully commit to it in case it got turned around onto someone else, so that she could switch to them.

End of Day 2. At this point I’m pretty sure that of the two, bufftabby is scum. zuma/roosh may be as well, but I’m sure about bufftabby.

Between the end of Day 2 and the beginning of Day 3 is where zuma basically disappeared. I’m not sure if anything can be read into that however.

I find it fascinating to compare bufftabby’s thoughts on Mad vs fluiddruid. She voted for Mad, but it was about as a halfhearted a vote as you can make. In post 782, she votes for fluid, and is positive that she is scum.

In posts 817 and 823, both pedscribe and fluid posit that there is one scum to be found in the fluid/Blam/bufftabby grouping. I can’t quite see the logic behind it, but I mention it here for others to digest, and maybe help me understand.

In post 838, she has a snuggle on Mindwanderer, Assassin, combined with a smudge on me and another statement that she is sure fluid is scum.

In post 888 she starts to back off her confidence that fluid is scum. At that point the bandwagon was pretty much out of control and fluid was done, so it strikes me as scum trying to back off from the lynch of a townie.

At the end of Day 3, zuma is modsubbed by Roosh. However, I don’t have the time to continue rereading thanks to work. Nonetheless, I feel pretty confident in this.

Vote bufftabby

So, Nanook, you haven’t even re-read any of RoOsh’s posts, but you’re convinced I’m scum based on zuma’s actions? :dubious:

And I think it’s a buncha crap that anytime I agree with somebody, I’m suddenly snuggling them. Saying “hey, I also think so-and-so is scum” is not the same thing as saying “so-and-so is clearly town”.

Oh, and some quotes would be real nice. I don’t find your observations very objective, and I’d hate for anyone to be persuaded by your already-weak argument. For example, you mention Post 888, in which I “back off my confidence that fluid is scum”. Precisely what I said was

. So, I suppose everyone else is always 100% certain about everything they think. If I were trying to back off the train and evade responsibility, wouldn’t I have simply unvoted her?

I guess you’re still bitter over yesterDay.

[QUOTE=bufftabby]
So, Nanook, you haven’t even re-read any of RoOsh’s posts, but you’re convinced I’m scum based on zuma’s actions? :dubious:

[quote]

No, I’m convinced your scum based on your actions. The fact that zuma was acting townie doesn’t change the fact that you were acting scummy.

Sorry, I was just posting my thoughts as I had them as I read. I don’t have time today to put in links to everything, barely had time to read as far as I did.

Not necessarily. That is more likely to bring you heat, since a lot of people look at votes and unvotes, without looking at the reasoning or comments before and after the votes. Expressing a lack of confidence in the vote lets you point back at it when it suits you, and ignore it when it doesn’t.

Nope, not at all. Thanks for asking though.

No, I’m convinced your scum based on your actions. The fact that zuma was acting townie doesn’t change the fact that you were acting scummy.

Sorry, I was just posting my thoughts as I had them as I read. I don’t have time today to put in links to everything, barely had time to read as far as I did.

Not necessarily. That is more likely to bring you heat, since a lot of people look at votes and unvotes, without looking at the reasoning or comments before and after the votes. Expressing a lack of confidence in the vote lets you point back at it when it suits you, and ignore it when it doesn’t.

Nope, not at all. Thanks for asking though.

So, when would it suit me to point back at it? When would it suit me to ignore it? Because I don’t see that I’ve done either of these these things. I’ve never tried to escape responsibility for my misguided FD vote. Shit happens. I’m not the only one who made the wrong decision.

Well it worked well yesterday so I sure am not going to argue thus point. Assuming it’s basically 2 v 2 at this point (I am still skeptical of RyJaye’s claim, however). How about the four of them work on a concensus, like the confirmed are in effect doing. Then the confirmed’s could analyze the patterns and discussion to have some additional information and data points.

And BlasterMaster and ShadowFacts if you want to call me an idiot - feel free. My thoughts have been pretty much off so far so it is justified.

Metagame question. Would it be weird or what if RoOsh replaced a lurker scum and then we have another lurker scum MindWander? Seems unlikely, statistically. BlasterMaster can point out the error of my ways.

Look. If we lynch a simpleton today, and RyJae is a miller, then WE LOSE. Since we are playing with uncertian odds, I still think it’s important to figure out the validity of his claim. We don’t have as much room to fool around as we think we do. Where is everybody, anyway?

I suppose the first step in determining RyJae’s status is figuring out Sach’s inclination to add millers. Can someone check if he’s played multiple/memorable games with millers? From what I’ve seen of him, he seems … well, I’m not sure.

Secondly, what did IceCreamMan do the first day? Since he would have had no contact with more experienced scum, that day is the most significant for analyzation. Look for changes in posting patterns and blatant calls for help. I see a few, actually, (although they are answered by Shadow Facts and Blaster Master). What does it mean that he votes for no lynch, then changes it at the buzzer?

Innocent question pedescribe: How many games have you played?

Also, what happens in the big transition of players? RyJae, when he first starts, is forced to defend a heavy accusation. How does he do it? How do we think IceCreamMan would have done it? How does it compare to his defense of my (much weaker) accusation of him day one? Can we glean any information from that?

This is my first.
Actually, I was so eager to start that I jumped on the first one that started after I could subscribe. Unfortunatly, this is the most difficult time of the year, thus the drop-off in posting from day one to the rest of the game. (When I play another game, I’ll be more involved)

Also, how often are millers used on the Dope mafia? How often are they used on the main “other site”? How often are they used on other other site? Where has Sach played, and what are the numbers there?

We can figure out RyJae’s status without any more from him directly if we try. I’m willing to devote (some of) Wedensday night to the search, but if I search alone I’ll probably only find scraps. This is an important topic, and we can’t just brush it off.

My (preliminary) results: IceCreamMan reacted to the accusation with passive-agressiveness, using harsh words but not voting until someone told him he should. RyJae was completly passive, accepting his fate as either outed scum or hopless miller. The partial passiveness on IceCreamMan’s part is weird, almost as if he was waiting for guidance on how to handle the situation.
I haven’t seen millers…ever, except for in the guide on mafiascum.net. I don’t know how common they are elsewhere. I don’t know how Sach thinks of the game, and I only have a vauge Idea of his thoughts as a player, but from what I’ve seen, he’s willing to counfound people for a greater cause. But this is supposed to be a back to basics game…

By my count that’s 4 scum scraps, 2 miller scraps.
My vote stands.

The reason I ask because if you be newb I understand exactly where you are coming from.

RyJaye has to swing eventually. Better at 6-2 than at 4-2 tomorrow if we choose wrong toDay. At least from where I sit.

I’d rather take 4-2 with no possible bullshit than have to deal with a possible unknown still floating around - that has to die eventually anyways. I mean you guys seem to have some unspoken rules but they never seem to be followed. Mas confusing.

I am willing to go along with the concensus idea because that seems to be a popular theme. But getting a little tired of the vets leading all the parades.

Just so I get a vote down:

Vote RyJaye

Worst case scenario would be 4-2 with three confirmeds if there is a miller in the game (not putting this by sachetorte (sp?) at all) then we at least eliminate that confusion.

Meh, my two cents.

Q’s from Buffy:

  1. Only ONE confirmed townie voted ryjae. Everyone else voted unknown. So, I ask you again: what makes it scummy that I believe in taking the same course of action that SEVEN different players found to be the best course of action yesterday?
  2. Oh, and why don’t you tell me when the last time I even did snuggle, since I am apparently so determined to continue doing so, to the great detriment of the town?

1. Okay. One confirmed Townie voted Ryjae, everyone else voted unknown. Let's up up the votes. 
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]

Day 4 Final Vote: Mind Wanderer is an Assassin
2 - **RyJae** (RoOsh, pedescribe)
5 - **Mind Wanderer** (ShadowFacts, NAF1138, peekercpa, Blaster Master, Nanook of the North Shore)
2 - **Nanook of the North Shore** (bufftabby, RyJae)
1 - **No Vote** (Mind Wanderer)
[/QUOTE]


Of those people: Only 4 votes matter. 
As the rest are confirmed townies by the detective. So throw out 7 people, and focus on 4.
Me- Votes Ryjae -a known scum result from our Cop.
Nanook- Votes MW last, but MW was also scum.
Buffy- Nanook -an unknown
Ryjae- votes Nanook.

My views on the vote: 
Me: I voted for scummiest, and I know what I am. No hard thoughts there.
Nanook- he gets points for voting for scum, but he did vote for MW last. So that was kinda an iffy one. He's got some suspicion for that. But i've not had a strong scummy vibe from the guy, but then again, he hasn't screamed town to me. The jury's out.
Ryjae- i consider him scum. He didn't vote for MW, another scum. Interesting. But he votes for Nanook. That's a nice cup of WIFOM to deal with if he's scum.
Buffy- votes for an unknown. You didn't vote for scum. Nor did you vote for someone who got a Scum result on him. To me that's doubly suspicious. Because that means 1. you found Nanook to be more suspicious than BOTH **Mindwanders **AND **Ryjae**. That's whats suspicious to me. But that's only 1 part. 
(BTW, just as a side point: I REALLY dislike the whole "Look, WHY ME? I'm doing what EVERYONE ELSE did" sorta defense. It's what I mean by the snuggling business (though its not the same thing) as its REALLY unhelpful. Because if you WANT to defend yourself then DEFEND your actions. Defend yourself with YOUR words. Hiding behind the masses is scummy to me. Just saying "well, I did it because THEY did it too, so WHY ME??" just shouts out that you're hiding something. It's like that new person in the you-solve-it game- the one who basically followed the masses and was generally confused and pretty much not helpful for the Town because of it. That's like the "archetype" of UNhelpfulness. If you can't justify YOUR actions with YOUR thoughts and YOUR reasonings, that's scummy to me. Because if YOU can't do it, and you're town; then how are we supposed to buy your reasonings and actions? We can't. It's best to lynch them then as they're just muddying up the waters, and allowing REAL scum to do the same tricks. But anyways, back to the point of WHY you of the 7.

Your votes have been the most suspicious of the "seven" by which I mean 3.
Let's look at overall voting trends:
**Day 1:** All 3 of us "unknowns" vote for Menocchio lynching him, who comes out Town. IceCreamRyae doesn't vote but wanted to vote for MadtheSwine. So I can't really get anything from that day.

**Day 2:**
Ice Cream Man & Nanook of the North Shore go for **Pedescribe**.
bufftabby- you go for **MadtheSwine**. A point in your favor, though your vote was VERY wishy-washy at times, and it went back and forth. If you are not scum, than an interesting point: No scum would have voted for MtS that day, which could very strongly be points against Nanook and Ryjae for trying to "save" their leader.
However, if I was scum- I'd always try to have a hand in voting for scum because then you get instant Townie cred. Seeing a lynch of scum without ANY scum ON the wagon is just surprising to me as a player. 
**Day 3:**
Nanook- goes after Mindwanders as a one-off vote.
Ryjae- votes for pedescribe again, a 2 off vote.
Buffy- votes for Fluiddruid. Interesting points to note- again, I felt your vote for fluid was very squeamish. Especially since you were quite pro-fluid and anti-blam it seemed from the earlier day. So to see you turn on fluid was surprising, but i suppose people CAN change their minds.
 *But also to note, if you're NOT scum, then MW would have been the only scum to lynch fluiddruid, this again would surprise me a wee bit. Scum just lost their head guy, I'd think they'd want to be in control of the voting process. However, everyone else besides you on that lynch is either townie or a mason. This is a big point against you in my book.
**
Day 4:**
 Well I've already said it above who voted for who.
So it's not so much your point of "I did what 7 other people did"  as that makes NO sense to me (and I don't really understand it as a defense, are you just basically saying "WHY ME??" if so- that's simple: You look scummy that's why you. Your actions are scummier to me than Nanook's. But because you also stand out as being scummier than him. Nanook's been through with the questions and votes and stuff, and I'm paying attention to that stuff, but you've been getting off pretty free without Me here, and that's not cool). So hopefully that'll help explain why you over 7 or 2 others basically. And it's not like I have a problem with you NOT voting for Ryjae. But I DO have a problem for you NOT voting for Scum or a Known Scum Result, because that makes me wonder WHY do you think that. Especially when toDay you changed your vote so quickly to me. You're being loose with your votes, and that to me shows your nanook one was a weak one, so why are you hopping around and such.

2.  The snuggly-thing (I sorta addressed this earlier, but I'll do it ONE more time for you, but at this point its like talking to a wall). I have problems with you JUSTIFYING anti-town actions. Snuggling is BAD. Period. That's my stance. So if you snuggle, I don't like it. If you think Snuggling is good, I don't like that EITHER, as it's not, and I have yet to see a good argument FOR snuggling. In my book, Snuggling = anti-town.

Now, if you were Townie you'd try to be helpful about this and just drop it. But you continue to insist that Snuggling it NOT a bad thing. Which to me means you want to keep the notion of snuggling around. I want to exterminate it, from this game, and future games. You want to keep it around for this game and perhaps even future games. This is a conflict of interest. So my biggest problems with you are the fact that you REFUSE to admit that "okay, my bad; I'll stop with the unhelpful junk", but you don't have a GOOD reason for why such things are not anti-town.
As long as you have that stance, I'm suspicious of you. Because that's you SUPPORTING anti-town actions. 
As for snuggling instances, I don't need to get into that sorta thing, but fine- saying "hey, why me of the 7 other people?" is a weak case of snuggling. You're trying to put yourself into a group to hide your actions. Why can't you just DEFEND them for they are. Defend your actions and motivations and justify them. Don't try to be evasive or coy about it. Doing so is trying to go "Hey, i'm just following the crowd. That's totally NOT Scummy. Cuz we're ALL doing it."
Scum do NOT want to stand out, they LIKE being in the crowd, they WANT people to trust them. So the fact that you continue to try to use those tactics as defenses for yourself REALLY don't persuade me any. As they're weak defenses for your actions, and you just evading the chance to have to make a stand and say "Yeah, I believe in what i did, and I had a reason for what i did." You so far haven't shown that, and seem more content to point out OTHERS as having done the same thing with you. That doesn't help me figure out who's scummy and who's not at ALL. 
It's not (in my book) a very townie action.

So there ya go.

BlaM- you know my stance on the "unknowns"
 My suspicion list: Ryjae, Buffy, Nanook in that order pretty much.

Ryjae- because i don't buy his claim. I still feel (as others have now said) we should strike while the iron's hot and we've got the chance.
Buffy- pretty much ALL my posts on this Day have gone towards why I dislike her actions. I'm pretty convinced she's the scummier of the Buffy/Nanook duo. 
Nanook- I don't have a strong read on him, but before I joined the game, I didn't have a scummy vibe on him. However, I'm keeping an open mind on him.

And BLaM- t'was meant to be a compliment, I consider you an awesome dude and a very nice player.

I’d consider myself a Vet too, ya know. But welcome to the Ryjae party!

That’s uncalled for, dude.

I’ll address the rest later.

And upon re read I think I screwed the pooch on my RyJaye vote.

Unvote Nanook of the North Shore

Vote RyJaye

But at least pedescribe got the first vote down by a whisker.