YAH smart move by my fellow townies, joining the scum bandwagon who KNOW I AM TOWN. I don’t understand how you didn’t understand NAF’s plan, unless of course you’re just playing into the scum’s plans.
Eliminate the unknowns, by killing me you kill a KNOWN. Okay goes like this, kill an unconfirmed today when they turn up scum tomorrow you do the same thing. Rinse and repeat until we win, neat huh? If we ever eliminate a townie with our lynch then by all means cut me open and play with my miller innards. But until that time it is a antitown move.
Rather than kill a townie today (ME) lose another townie tonight that’s a loss of 2 town. Not a wise move for us to make and dammit I want to win!
So we have two confirmed town and one person whom you think is the most town of the unconfirmeds and this equals a “scum” bandwagon. Color me confused.
NAF had a good plan in place, nothing has changed other than him dying, why change it and follow an unconfirmed persons plan, color me tie dyed confusionarama.
Somebody please eliminate my confusion. I thought the whole reasoning behind leaving ryjae alone for now was that we have two possible situations, since there were 16 players, and the square root of 16 is 4. Possibilty A: 4 scum (derived from the bit about the square root) including ryjae, leaving 1 scum in the unconfirmed pool (excluding ryjae from the unconfirmeds). Possibility B: 3 scum plus one miller-who-reads-as-scum, leaving one scum in the unconfirmed pool.
Is this incorrect? Others’ game plans now seems to be based on assuming that if ryjae is truly a miller, that there are 2 scum in the unconfirmed pool. If my understanding of probable scum numbers is wrong, then I need to revamp my game plan. So, am I missing something here?
NAF was of the opinion that if RyJae is truly a miller, then there is only 3 actual scum. He seemed to be sure of this based on some out of game factors relating to game balance that he didn’t go into details of. It makes sense to me, since miller, especially powerless miller, is a definate negative factor for town, and we only have 2 masons when 3 is more standard. One less scum to start balances those two factors out.
Yes, I did. MindWanderer only got lynched for inactivity, so that he wouldn’t be modkilled. I’ve said before that I’m not a lurker-lyncher. I voted who I felt to be scummy. I’ve given my reasons for not voting for ryjae yet, and right now I’m waiting for clarification (see my most recent post before this one) to make sure my logic on that makes sense. If the situation turns out to be different than I thought, then I will vote for her/him/apparently I have no idea.
I’m not using the reasons of others to justify my actions. I’ve explained why I think it’s a good idea to ferret out the scum in the unknowns. I haven’t simply said “everyone else is doing it, so why can’t I?” I just think it’s wacky to consider it a point against me, but not against anyone else doing the same damn thing.
Well, then the scum planned that well. I understand that scum are gonna wanna periodically hop on a scum bandwagon, but I’d say a vote against their leader would be one of the votes they would tend to stay away from. I do see where you are coming from on this, but all i can really argue is that it is not the case, and not exactly illogical to consider that it could reasonably not be the case.
I said that I didn’t think the death of the one person voting for FD should be taken to mean that FD is scum. That was the extent of my pro-Fluidity.
Uh huh. Scum’s really gonna rush to join a townie bandwagon that’s already completely out of control, and pretty much a guaranteed success. At least I voted.
You’re right. I should doggedly hang onto my opinions about players and never change them or put any thought into them. :rolleyes: This is ridiculous.
No, you continue to use it as this big point against me, and I continue to refute it. You can’t even tell me when I’m doing it. I’m glad you’re done talking about it; I’m fucking sick of it. It’s just more of your scum-ass bullshit that you seem to be so good at stirring up.
Oh, so I’m just this awful snuggling machine, but you don’t need to explain how? What weak-ass bullshit reasoning. I have never been more convinced that you are scum.
Yeah, and I’ll state (one more time): I have defended my lack of a ryjae vote, and not by saying “everybody is doing it”. Upon preview, I see that Nanook has clarified for me that I am viewing potential scum numbers correctly, so my reasoning on not voting ryjae still stands. Nice misrepresentation on your part, though.
Thanks, that’s what I thought, but I was concerned that I had missed something there.
So, my logic on not voting for ryjae stands. I’ll teach a remedial course on the subject if you’d like, RoOsh. You were clearly not paying attention the first time. (And by “not paying attention”, I mean “willfully ignoring” because your real name is Scummy McTownwannabe. I think it’s an old Scottish-Japanese name.)
This is wrong. MindWanderer got lynched because I put together a solid case against him (working from previous analysis by Nanook) and convinced enough confirmed townies to vote with me. Yes, once the train got started, some of them stated that it was better to lynch him than for him to be modkilled, but he wouldn’t have even been on the block if not for the actual work done to analyze his behavior.
Ok, fair enough, shadowfacts. I remember somebody (peeker or pedesccribe, I forget which) mentioning that we got scum, but for a lame reason. That must’ve stuck in my mind, and I totally forgot about the work that came before.
This is what I had been thinking, and it worked well for us yesterday. Nevertheless, I’m going to re-assess and try to lay it all out. Here’s where we’re at (with apologies to pedescribe who already did something similar earlier):
ShadowFacts - mason
peekercpa - mason
Blaster Master - town
pedescribe - town
bufftabby - unknown
Nanook - unknown
RoOsh - unknown
RyJae - scum or miller
Let’s assume we kill an unknown today, e.g. bufftabby, and she comes up TOWN. Let’s further assume that scum kill me toNight. That leaves us with:
peekercpa - mason
Blaster Master - town
pedescribe - town
Nanook - unknown
RoOsh - unknown
RyJae - scum or miller
If RyJae is a Miller, that puts us at 4-2, with Nanook and Roosh as the remaining scum. But we have no idea if RyJae is a Miller, so we would lynch him (as Blaster has suggested) to find out. We do, and find out he’s telling the truth. Scum kill Blaster at night. That leaves us with:
Knowing for sure now that RyJae was a Miller, we’re feeling pretty sure that there were only 3 scum to begin with, so its 3-1, lynch or lose, 50-50 odds. Not a slam dunk, but not bad.
If RyJae comes up scum, we’re in the same boat, because there would have been 4 scum to start with. Either way, we’re at 3-1.
OK, alternate reality. Let’s go back to the top:
ShadowFacts - mason
peekercpa - mason
Blaster Master - town
pedescribe - town
bufftabby - unknown
Nanook - unknown
RoOsh - unknown
RyJae - scum or miller
This time, we lynch RyJae toDay. He comes up Miller and scum kill me. That leaves us with:
peekercpa - mason
Blaster Master - town
pedescribe - town
bufftabby - unknown
Nanook - unknown
RoOsh - unknown
That puts us at 4-2, with 2 scum hiding in a pool of 3. This is sort-of LYLO, but not exactly due to the 50-50 tie rule. Not a good place to be, though.
If RyJae turned up scum instead, we would then be at:
peekercpa - mason
Blaster Master - town
pedescribe - town
bufftabby - unknown
Nanook - unknown
RoOsh - unknown
We’d be at 5-1, with 1 scum hiding in a pool of 3. This is a pretty good place to be, as we would still get 1 free mis-lynch before we were at LYLO.
OK, with all that laid out, it seems to me that it is clearly better NOT to lynch RyJae today. Do you guys see it differently? Sure, if he’s scum, it would be awesome, but if he’s not, we’re in bad shape. Too risky, IMO. Townies voting for RyJae now - please read the above carefully and see if it makes sense to you. If so, you probably ought to put your vote elsewhere (preferably someplace super-scummy )
One more thing: I went back to look at when NAF1138 claimed Detective and explained his investigative results. He posted at 11:20am. RyJae was there 13 minutes later at 11:33am claiming he was a Miller.
Now, I don’t know about the rest of you, but that seems pretty damn quick for scum to be ready with a false Miller claim. I mean, sure, he could have prepped it in advance, I suppose, but is that more likely than him just being a Miller? I gotta go with Occam’s Razor on this one.
(Also, while the Miller role is somewhat unusual, I don’t think it’s completely out of place in this “basic” game. Ever since I got my PM that there were only 2 masons instead of the usual 3, I suspected the set-up was not completely standard. Having MadtheSwine as a “Lead” Assassin - whatever that means - strengthened that position.)
Basically, what I’m saying is that I continue to be inclined to believe **RyJae’s **claim.
Dude, did you read my mind, or what? This is what I was thinking just this morning, that it was going to happen. (I’m taking a shower, and I’m thinking about Mafia. WTF is wrong with me?)
It was moi, the short bus version of the Mason clan. But in a little defense that was not solely my reason for voting for voting for him. Merely, the one that tipped the scales conclusively.
BTW, before I depart internet-land for a while again, I should
**
Unvote RoOsh**
I was running out of time yesterday and hoping that if I at least threw a vote out there it might generate something, but alas no. My position has not changed much, except that Nanook continues to act in a pro-Town manner, and he is not getting my vote today. I’ve stated exhaustively above why I don’t think we should vote for RyJae.
So that still leaves it between bufftabby and RoOsh in my mind. I will be back with a final decision on that, but probably not until tomorrow.
Understood. I just can’t see voting for RoOsh at this point. I will follow up with the plan that we have kind of discussed (super majority). I understand your scenarios but don’t like the terrifying possibility of it coming down to me or pedescribe being in any kind of coin flip situation. No offense meant to pedescribe by the way.
Ah, I’d forgotten that bit about there being only 2 Masons (which just strikes me as odd, as I think that’s not happened since the Firefly game). But now I see this numbers business of 3 scum and such.
Buffytabby: Why do you consider it “unusual” for me to be suspicious of YOU and not others, when many of the others that you’ve mentioned have been cleared by the detective? In my book there are 3 suspects. I will tend to only really be suspicious of those 3 people. Hence your going on about “why just me” is really inaccurate. Same thing again with your whole issue of Snuggling- at this point it just feels like arguing with a wall. You haven’t really changed anything in your stance since yesterDay, and I don’t see any chance of me persuading you otherwise toDay. All it’s done is taken up my time trying to rationalize with you and waste resources.
And by all means: I’d love to hear YOUR reasoning on why not to lynch Ryjae rather than someone else’s. I WANT to hear your thoughts, and not you agreeing with someone else. But once again someone else has “clarified it” perhaps next time you can explain it to me with your OWN thoughts rather than just ranting about me and wasting time.
**Shadowfacts**, I see where you're coming from on the Ryjae vs. Unknown reasoning with your post 1231.
But two issues:
-Why can't there be 2 scum AND a miller? I believe this is highly unlikely, but I'm just curious as to how no one's really mentioned it. In fact, in your first scenario with the 4-2, and Ryjae coming up with a Miller result- a 2 town vs. 2 unknowns could be DISASTROUS if there were 2 scum hidden in the unknowns. Just a word of caution, but right now, I currently think the miller claim is bull.
Because what's the point of a Miller that doesn't even HAVE powers? Just as a minor obstacle for scum?
At some point we're going to have to deal with him for information, and I personally would rather deal with him when there are greater numbers of us around and we try to figure out something the next day w/ Voting patterns.
-Because this will be sure: No unknown will probably die during the night. Most likely it will be a confirmed player. So why shouldn't we test our unknowns- I view it as there are 3 uknowns, of which one has had a scum result. The idea that "well he posted in 11 mins. so it seems highly unlikely he made it up" is really, well quite
a dangerous thought. Because if scum can talk at night, scum will have the ability to prepare or discuss SOMETHING. That's why I just don't believe a role claim so readily. But I can see now where you guys are getting this 3 scum vs 4 scum balancing aspect (It's just when I design games i never pay attention to the balancing really until the very end just to proof-read. Ie: it's okay to have one side or another be a bit uneven). But that's my bias speaking. So i agree that my ideas may not be the best.
I still feel that Ryjae is the MOST suspicious player out here toDay. And i feel the most confident voting him. But I will try this unknown business and vote for the one I see as WAY more scummier currently than the other.
**Unvote Ryjae**
**
Vote Bufftabby**
A few questions for you **Buffy**:
1. Can you explain your vote yesterDay vs. Nanook?
2. Why did you not vote for Ryjae or Mindwanders yesterday?
3. What changed your mind so quickly from yesterDay to toDay in your vote? Was my comments on you (without even a vote) so damning that you found me suddenly scummy?
4. Who is your #2 suspect, and why? [As I presume, I am your #1, since you ARE voting for me]
The only one “going on” about “why just me” is YOU when you’re trying to put words in my mouth. At least you finally placed your vote on me. Where was your inquisition on RyJae when you found her most suspicious? I mean, you WERE voting for her, weren’t you?
I think the only wall being argued against here is you. You just insist that I’m scummy because I won’t quit doing something I’m not even doing. At least, you can’t seem to present any evidence that I’ve done so.
What’s funny is in that same post, I have to repeat myself to you again, from a different post. You’re the reason that you and I continue to talk about the same issues over and over. You’re not Town trying to find scum. You’re scum trying to make this Townie look bad no matter how I respond to you. That’s how I know you’re scum. Don’t get me wrong; you’re playing “Town” really well.
The last-minute MtS vote change, and the commentary afterward. The quick change from defending BlaM to FoSing him. I changed my mind after MW came up scum. In retrospect, it seems like MW was going after a townie, using less polished, yet very similar tactics to what you’ve been using on me.
'Cause I voted for NNS. Duh.
No, really, I explained the ryjae bit above. Again. I didn’t vote for MW because I didn’t recognize his scumminess. Simple as that.
Well, yeah. See above.
Ryjae. Lemme guess, there’s something wrong with that.
Because I think that’s an open and shut case. HE (jeez, we’ve already gone over this, but you keep mentioning the wrong pronoun) is a liar to me. I think he’s scummy because I simply don’t buy his claim.
So why should i even bother to ask him any questions? He’s scum, but it seems that no one else really wants to go for that sort of a lynch toDay, and the “numbers” being cited at me are against it. So I’ll hold off on him. That said, you’re suspect #2, and I’m not as sure-fire about you.
But when I hold you up against the wall, and then I compare you to nanook…
Well, you’re a hell of a lot more suspicious to me. So I’m taking the chance here, as I believe you’re more likely to be scum vs. Nanook but I’m unsure.
**Ryjae **doesn’t get an interrogation because if it were up to me, he’d be dead already.
)