Well, of course there’s not much to go on. Yet. This first day is about establishing a paper trail. The only people who know anything are the mafiosi and the masons. So we really can’t do much with today’s ramblings…until people start turning up dead.
Apparently I misplaced an unvote in my spread sheet, but I think I have it fixed now.
Tell me if there are any errors please.
NAF1138 2 (Hal Briston, Lightnin’)
CaerieD 1 (Lemur866)
nesta 1 (ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)
percypercy 1 (DiggitCamara)
Lightnin’ 4 (NAF1138, Projammer, dnooman, IdleThoughts)
Kyrie Eleison 1 (Omi No Kami)
Omi No Kami 3 (CaerieD, Rachm Qoch, Kyrie Eleison)
Idle Thoughts 1 (Blaster Master)
People who have yet to place a vote: SnakesCatLady, tirial, Millet the Frail.
People who have never been voted for: HalBriston, Projammer, tirial, Blaster Master, Rachm Qoch)
Highest vote getters: NAF1138 (4), Lightnin’ (4), DiggitCamara (3), Omi No Kami (3)
That’s what I have at the moment.
I finally had a chance to review the thread. I’m glad we only have 20 this time around; it makes it a lot easier to keep track of who has said what.
First, I need to un-FOS ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies. On review his posts have struck me as more pro-town than I’d previously thought. I think I had a little tunnel-vision after calling him out for the random FOS.
The two people jumping out to me as scum are Lightnin’ and Projammer.
Lightnin’ because he seems very over-defensive, and almost every post of his has pinged my scumdar. Post 193 hit my scumdar at the very beginning, and since then he’s been very defensive every time he’s called out. His votes and unvotes seem cagey. It seems to me that he’s reacting more to the suspicion than trying to out scum.
Projammer has also hit my scumdar on almost every post. In post 223 he says anyone who is about to be lynched will role claim. That struck me as an odd thing to say, since only scum would think that false claiming is a good idea. In that post he also pushes people to vote, and an early lynching is in the scum’s best interest. In post 237 he responds to me pointing out that pro-town won’t false claim. He says he forgot about the Winston Smith debacle, and also that pro-town wins if the town wins. I’m not sure what to make of this, but this struck me as odd. In post 355 he posits that the masons will target townies before mafia. I’m not sure how you would come to this conclusion. It would be foolish for the masons to not try to play it as a straight-up town role and if they really want to go for a mason win then wait until close to the end-game to actually do anything proactive to facilitate it.
The post that moved him from suspicion to suspect was post 409, where he says that either Lightnin’ or NAF1138 is scum since they’ve been going at it. He advocates lynching Lightnin’ and if he turns out to be town, then lynching NAF1138. If there’s one thing I learned from last game, it’s that scum love setting up two town lynches in a row. He seems a little too eager to do so here.
Post 424 hits my scumdar. It seems he has given the scum position a lot of thought, and he also points out that scum might vote for other scum to make themselves look better. This has me looking at his Lightnin’ in a different light.
I’m going to vote Projammer, but heavy FOS Lightnin’.
[QUOTE=Gadarene]
(ask nesta how she (?) got outed as Mafia last game).
[/QUOTE]
FTR, I’m a he.
[QUOTE=nesta]
FTR, I’m a he.
[/QUOTE]
And I’m a she. 
Ok, I got a little more time at home than I thought I would today and have a couple of minutes to make a post.
First off, I am going to unvote Lightnin’.
He seems scummy as all get out, and this might really be a mistake on my part, but the last couple of posts he made sound more like a frustrated noob than a defensive mafioso. Yes, he could be both, and there is still a BIG ol’ FOS on Lightnin’ in my book. But for now I am going to take my vote off.
Right now it is this post:
[QUOTE=Projammer]
I had missed your vote for Lightnin and was thinking mine was the majick number three vote that is supposed to be one of the big tells.
Unthinkable that two townies are going at each other? Hardly. Also a possibility that it’s two scum doing a stage play to move out of the lurker field. And sacrificing one would put the other in a prominant anti-scum light. Though I really doubt that’s the case. I don’t think they’d have the numbers to just throw one away like that. Not to mention that they haven’t had a night strategy session yet.
Correct me if I’m wrong though. They can only discuss strategy at night?
No targets, just verbalizing my thoughts. Subtlety was never my strong point.
[/QUOTE]
that is really pinging my scumdar. **Projammer ** is talking about the mob in a way that I have noticed scum in my current game talk about the mob. It’s just a little too “gee shucks, I don’t really know what is going on” for my taste. And feels like **Projammer ** is trying to subtlely say “hey I am just a townie, I don’t know WHAT the mafia are up to”
I don’t like it.
Projammer was feeling kind of scummy to me anyway, before this post. He REALLY feels like scum now.
**Omi No Kami ** also feels like scum to me, and it’s for the same misrepresention of posts that I called out Fluid on earlier. BUT it could be a simple mistake. I don’t know and I am less sure about it than I am Projammer, so…
vote Projammer
FOS Omi No Kami
Well, I spend all that time working up a post and **nesta ** beats me to the punch with a better one.
Oh well.
Okay, here’s where I stand now. There is definitely something going on with Lightnin’, but I’m not at all ready to call him scum. He got corrected by Gadarene for editting a post, got defensive, and things snowballed from there. So I’m watching him, but no fingerpointing yet.
Projammer is another story. The arguments against him are compelling. He’s trying to be slick, but it’s not working for me. So let’s make that…
Vote Projammer
-Lil
This sudden (seeming) bandwagon on Projammer is opening up new suspicions to me.
I, personally, haven’t seen anything weird with him (her?). I’ve read over all the past posts that people linked too but I just don’t see the intentions that some seem to be attributing to them. Granted people said the same thing about things I found off with fluidruid, so maybe it’s just what one interprets from one’s own POV.
The only odd thing I saw him make was the whole masons will be against townies post that nesta pointed out. Other then that though, nothing hits me.
I’m going to start keeping my eye on his posts more, that’s for sure…but for right now I’m a bit more leery of those suddenly rushing in to vote for him then him himself.
sighs I can’t win. One misspelling and a wrong form of “to” in that last post…and I even previewed this time. :o
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
And I’m a she.
[/QUOTE]
Noted. Sorry about that.
Oh…dear. I’m not really sure what I think about the rush against Projammer. It seems a bit out of left field, which makes me think scum, but NAF1138’s points seem solid. The vote just seems so sudden.
I’m hoping there’s going to be some defense from Projammer and more explanation from those casting votes in that direction. After that, I’m a bit suspicious of those three.
I would like to hear Projammer’s side of things because clearly, words can easily be taken out of context. What I’ve seen so far leads me to believe my vote is solid, but I want to hear his defense.
-Lil
Seems I’m putting my foot in every time I say something, but let me try again.
First off, people keep trying to read my observations as me advocating one thing or another. I’m not.
Forcing a role claim is a bad thing. Claiming a false role is a VERY bad thing. Just ask Winston. I said that I had observed there were quite a few role claims in the first two games. Go back and reread my posts. I have never advocated forcing claims.
Masons. Yes, they win if the town wins. But one of their assigned goals is to win for themselves. So if it looks to them like they can eliminate the mob and enough townies for them to score a win they will. And while the masons win if the town wins, that works the other way as well. The town wins if the masons win. Small consolation to the townies that had to be sacrificed to make that happen.
The only firm stance I have made so far is that Lightnin and NAF are both pinging high.
I am keeping an eye on people that continue to misrepresent my posts though.
BTW: I am a he. Just to avoid gender confusion for those who will refer to me in future posts.
posting from my phone while I am working on a play. so forgive me for not coding anything. (its a slow show and I have been reading the dope to pass the time)
I just want to make it clear that my vote for projammer is based entierly on the quoted post.
Sure the other stuff is suspicious, and I won’t pretend it didn’t factor in. But he wasn’t being any more suspicious than anyone else in my eyes until that post.
To me that post was a clear exhibition of scum behavior based on what I have seen other scum do in other games.
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami]
Gah, this is going completely wrong. I’ll admit that I didn’t read CaerieD’s posts carefully before making an accusation, which is wrong no matter what you say. But I concede the flip-flopping bit, I think you’ll agree that the sum of my argument was “CaerieD seems to be acting differently this time. Huh, that’s strange. Let’s keep an eye on her”. And I stand by that. ^^
[/QUOTE]
I don’t want to belabor the point, so I’ll just make my say on this and move on.
Recapping, you took issue with CaerieD in post #390:
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami]
Undecided CaerieD. **She seems to be much more agressive and confrontational ** in this game than the last one, and anything out of the ordinary is worth examining. Her suspicions seem well-founded, but she also changes them a lot. (I think she’s flip-flopped on fluid at least once or twice). It may be that she’s scum, and trying to confuse us by “helpfully” **providing lots and lots of conflicting commentary ** in the hopes of hiding bad advice inside of good advice, or it may just be that she doesn’t feel the need to lay low like she did when she was the detective in our last round. Honestly, I think the latter is more likely, but I get the feeling that if we watch her for another day or two it’ll be much more obvious what the deal is.
[/quote]
(All bolding mine)
Here’s the two posts by CaerieD (#214 & #282) you supposedly gleaned all this from (posted in their entirety):
[Quote=CaerieD]
I’m highly suspicious of fluiddruid right now for being the third person to vote for NAF1138 in post #199. But, then Idle Thoughts misrepresents fluiddruid’s position on voting, by lumping fluiddruid, Millit the Frail and Lemur866 all together as advocates of not voting, which isn’t what fluiddruid had been suggesting here at all.
I’m not ready to cast a vote yet, but I’m quite curious.The questioning is actually what made me less inclined to think that fluiddruid was scum. It was the townies in the last game who were the most suspicious of others and the ones who essentially led to all of the role claims. While it’s easy enough for scum to emulate the tactics of town, those tactics didn’t go very well for the town. Any scum who was smart enough to notice that the townies did that and try to copy it would also know that it wasn’t a very good tactic and resulted in lynchings and role claims. And then we’re back at the “wine in front of me” situation there, aren’t we? Argh.
[/quote]
[Quote=CaerieD]
We’ve still got plenty of time. No one is jumping out at me as a very good prospect just yet, and my suspicions of fluiddruid are fading. All of you are potential scum as far as I’m concerned, but I don’t think offing the experienced players right off the bat is going to help us. There’s a good chance some of them (most of them?) are going to be Vanilla Citizens.
[/quote]
See the disconnect?
But things only get worse. To directly respond to your post at top, the crux of your argument wasn’t that “CaerieD seem[ed] to be acting differently this time,” but that (s)he was acting suspiciously in this game. Which clearly isn’t the case, as the bolded excerpts from your own posts attest. You only brought up CaerieD’s participation in the previous game three quarters of the way into your post. How can you stand by the statement that that was the crux of your argument? Not only do you mischaracterize CaerieD’s posts – you mischaracterize your own.
Though I do see what you’re saying concerning CaerieD’s posting in the two games, even if it doesn’t especially concern me at the moment (maybe he is just trying to surrvive this time?). If I were to give you the benefit of the doubt (though at this point I’m not), and assume you really meant to stress CaerieD’s role in the previous game, I’d give you this advice: 1) you should have simply made your point without all the extraneous accusations; and 2) you should have explained exactly what you’re talkinig about WRT the previous game, especially since not all of us made our way past the first few pages of that thread. At this point, cagey posts are the quickest way to the gallows.
For that matter, how about if we all keep vague references to the two previous WW/Mafia games to a relative minimum? For the benefit of those who didn’t follow either/both of them. If you have some insight vis-a-vis a prior game, spell it out, OK?
It doesn’t serve any of us if the point you’re trying to make is lost on half the town.
[QUOTE=dnooman]
Apparently I misplaced an unvote in my spread sheet, but I think I have it fixed now.
Tell me if there are any errors please.
[/QUOTE]
The one thing I’m noticing is I don’t see fluiddruid or Lemur866 tallied.
Huh. I’ve only had time to skim the new stuff, but it looks like we’re having a hard time getting anything going because people are afraid of jumping on a bandwagon. That’s not a bad thing, necessarily. I’m still holding off on a vote because I feel that there’s no need to rush things, and I’m getting plenty to work with already. (And because I’ve got limited time.) In a few days, I’ll try to read the whole thread again, catch up on everything, and read more closely.
In the meantime, I’ll say I agree with the reasons some of you all have for suspecting Projammer. And in his latest post, he says that “forcing a role claim is a bad thing.” This is true. However, how is anyone supposed to know that they’re forcing a role claim ahead of time? How can it be avoided? You see what I mean? If we had some way of already knowing that our target had a special role, then there wouldn’t be anything left to claim. It would be common knowledge. Forcing a role claim is more of a mistake then a “bad thing.” That’s what makes this game so difficult. Am I making any sense?
Also, it’s Millit. With TWO i’s!
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch]
For that matter, how about if we all keep vague references to the two previous WW/Mafia games to a relative minimum? For the benefit of those who didn’t follow either/both of them. If you have some insight vis-a-vis a prior game, spell it out, OK?
It doesn’t serve any of us if the point you’re trying to make is lost on half the town.
[/QUOTE]
I’d like to second this. It’s hard enough having to keep track of everyone in here- having to keep track of their previous performances is much harder.