percypercy has only voted for people that other people have voted for, plus there is next to nothing in his/her posts.
The Projammerwagon needs to stop and be inspected IMO.
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch]
The one thing I’m noticing is I don’t see fluiddruid or Lemur866 tallied.
[/QUOTE]
Reread the post. Votes that are unvoted are not accounted here.
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch]
I don’t want to belabor the point, so I’ll just make my say on this and move on.
[/QUOTE]
Good. I’m the first to admit that not being careful was my fault, and I don’t have enough evidence to make any further claims at this point, but I will say that you three all seem to be coming down on me pretty hard; if I recall correctly, I essentially said “Gee, I’m having trouble finding any good leads, so I’ll just talk out what I’m thinking. CaerieD looks suspicious, but I can’t draw any conclusions from it so I’m going to keep my eye on her”. I know that catching scum trying to start bandwagons is a valid play, but the way in which you, Kyrie and Caerie all seem to have jumped on me for voicing vague suspicions makes me wonder.
So I’m keeping my eyes on all of you.
Idle Thoughts, thanks for clearing up the issue over role assignment Post 430. Withdraw FOS on Idle Thought.
Gadarene, could you answer one rules question, which I’d prefer an answer before there is any chance of it occuring. If a player is converted then lynched, how does their assignment show up? Is it purely as mafia, or would it be “town/mafia” “mason converted mafia” etc.
There still isn’t really not enough to go on. SnakesCatLady or percypercy - any chance of borrowing a psychic cat? To be honest I think NAF is probably town, but that doesn’t mean that Lighnin isn’t, as both dnooman (post 424) and I (post 428) have said. I will be honest and say at the moment I am looking through Kyrie and Projammer’s posts, but for reasons I started stating in post 342, I am leaning towards Projammer. However as the game moves on I also agree with nesta’s reasoning in post 443, which is very much what I was thinking. Some posts of yours that that particularly concerned me, Projammer:
On the role claims issue:
Post 356
(Post 223) looks pretty much like encouraging pushing peope into role-claims early, which would only help the mafia. A post on mason strategy suggesting working against the town (post 355) is a concern, but its clinched (for me) by Post 454
Not from my understanding of the rules, or from Kyrie’s post 402 - the masons also win if the town wins because all masons are town. However the town does not win if the masons win as not all townies are masons.
If this is incorrect let me know - otherwise FOS Projammer.
I would vote for you but there are two good reasons not to.
- There’s a bandwagon going on, and I’d like to hear your answers before risking triggering an early vote.
- I think there’s a better reason to vote for someone else.
percypercy, you haven’t posted a lot of substance, or very often. You may not be around much, but please post some analysis or other useful information. My analysis here is based on the lack of information.
Post 438. Actually it lets us know how you think, what lines you are looking down and your particular take on it, which issues you think are important and which ones you ignore. It means if you die other people can pick up the threads you were looking at, and therefore helps the town.
Post 425. You didn’t explain your vote in that post and your request here was followed up by withdrawing your vote and FOSing DiggitCamera. If you ask for information you have to give some as well. And there is a problem with your post in 438. SnakesCatLady with 12 posts by post 421 is not exactly “laying low”. Your count at the same time was 6.
Vote percypercy.
I withdrew my vote fot DiggitCamera and placed a FOS on him because I decided I needed more information before I was comfortable voting for him. Also, like I said, I’ll post when I have something to say and no other time. However, I will be gone for most of today so I won’t be posting again until the evening.
-Lil
For the record, I’m a she.
I’m really suspicious of anyone deciding I’m scum based off of differences in the way I played last game versus the way I’m playing now. I was a) the Detective and b) offed by the Vigilante on Night 2. Unless I was the Detective again and hoping to get killed off quickly, I wouldn’t play the same. I’m trying to play differently, because last time I sucked.
It’s just not a very convincing argument against me, since there were so few posts to go on and I hadn’t flip-flopped at all. True, vague musing like this are all we have to go on right now, but it’s pretty logically weak. Now, if the FOS from Omi no Kami had come against me because of my few posts, like the vote against me did, it’d make more sense, but since it seemed to be for the exact opposite reason it struck me as pretty scummy.
As far as Projammer goes, I’m not particularly convinced by that defense, but still suspicious of the voters. I’m leaning towards switching my vote to one of those four, just because it seems so odd.
tirial:
The latter. A player will be shown to be “mafia doctor,” or “mafia detective,” or “citizen turned mafia,” and so on.
I’ll have an updated vote count sometime later this morning.
I will say that now that we’re truly into the game everyone is posting, so there are no true lurkers anymore. But SnakesCatLady hasn’t posted anything of much substance. Of course she’s got a good reason…there’s nothing to post about. Except that applies to everyone.
So far I have no reason to change my vote.
Percypercy did hop on the Projammer bandwagon. I won’t vote against him based on that, but thats a data point to consider.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
Seems I’m putting my foot in every time I say something, but let me try again.
First off, people keep trying to read my observations as me advocating one thing or another. I’m not.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure if you’re including me in the people who are saying you advocate something you don’t. On reviewing your posts I did catch one place I did that: in post 443 where I voted for you, I said you wanted to lynch Lightnin’ and if he turns out to be town to lynch NAF1138. This wasn’t entirely correct, because in post 409 you said:
[QUOTE=Projammer]
And should lightnin turn out to be townie, FOS NAL.
[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure from the context of that post that you mean FOS NAF1138 if Lightnin’ turns out to be town. You didn’t come right out and say we should lynch NAF1138 if Lightnin’ is town, so I apologize for saying you did. I do think that’s what you were getting at, though, just not in so many words.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
Forcing a role claim is a bad thing. Claiming a false role is a VERY bad thing. Just ask Winston. I said that I had observed there were quite a few role claims in the first two games. Go back and reread my posts. I have never advocated forcing claims.
[/QUOTE]
I never thought you were advocating false claims. In post 223 you say:
[QUOTE=Projammer]
Everyone is doing their best to give off I’m-a-townie vibes, so unless someone does slip up badly, there’s no real hard data to go on. Whomever get’s the vote this time is pretty much guaranteed to try some sort of role claim. About the only thing they’re NOT going to claim is scum.
[/QUOTE]
It was the fact that you thought whoever gets lynched will make a claim that I found odd. A vanilla townie wouldn’t be thinking this. It’s these types of disconnects from what a regular townie would be thinking that made me suspicious of you in the first place.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
Masons. Yes, they win if the town wins. But one of their assigned goals is to win for themselves. So if it looks to them like they can eliminate the mob and enough townies for them to score a win they will. And while the masons win if the town wins, that works the other way as well. The town wins if the masons win. Small consolation to the townies that had to be sacrificed to make that happen.
[/QUOTE]
As has already been pointed out, this isn’t entirely correct. If the masons outnumber the other townies at the end of the game, the masons win and the rest of the town loses.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
The only firm stance I have made so far is that Lightnin and NAF are both pinging high.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you about Lightnin’, and I’m still undecided about NAF1138 (as I am with most everyone at this point). The only reason you’ve given for suspecting NAF1138 is because he was going after Lightnin’, and I agree with him (and you) that Lightnin’ deserves to be a suspect due to his over-defensiveness. What other reasons do you have for suspecting NAF1138?
[QUOTE=Projammer]
I am keeping an eye on people that continue to misrepresent my posts though.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. Please name names, though. If you think I’m misrepresenting you, call me on it specifically.
My vote for you stands. Am I 100% sure your scum? No. But I do think I’m right about you, and other than Lightnin’ no one has stood out nearly as much to me as someone trying to play the townie without actually being one.
[QUOTE=CaerieD]
Oh…dear. I’m not really sure what I think about the rush against Projammer. It seems a bit out of left field, which makes me think scum, but NAF1138’s points seem solid. The vote just seems so sudden.
I’m hoping there’s going to be some defense from Projammer and more explanation from those casting votes in that direction. After that, I’m a bit suspicious of those three.
[/QUOTE]
I was surprised by the mini-wagon as well, even though I guess I co-started it. NAF1138 says he started his post about Projammer before mine was there, which I can believe since it takes me quite a while to compose posts where I link post numbers and quote a lot. If NAF1138 is town, then I’ll feel a little vindicated that we both picked up on the same things. Of course, if he isn’t, then I’ll feel really stupid for maybe giving him ammunition against a fellow townie.
I’m not sure about percypercy. I didn’t like the way she handled her early vote for DiggitCamera. And now she’s on the bandwagon I started. What does this tell me? That either my vague suspicions about percypercy are probably wrong, or my pointed suspicions about Projammer are.
I’d like others to review Projammer’s posts and see if they see the same things I am.
[QUOTE=nesta]
My vote for you stands. Am I 100% sure your scum? No. But I do think I’m right about you, and other than Lightnin’ no one has stood out nearly as much to me as someone trying to play the townie without actually being one.
[/QUOTE]
You know, I was going to stay out of any subthread which mentions me as a suspect. Every attempt I’ve made to explain my actions has been viewed as being overly defensive, so why bother?
However, I just can’t let this slip. Could you please explain exactly what I’ve done to
try to “play the townie without actually being one”?
As for why I’m still maintaining that Naf is scum, the only thing I can point to is that he’s been very vocal, right from the beginning, in saying I’m acting suspicious. Once other people jumped on the bandwagon, though, he’s kinda backed off. That in itself makes me even more suspicious that he’s scummy- get the vote rolling, then back off so you look like one of the mob.
I’m not necessarily saying he’s mafia… but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s mason.
[QUOTE=tirial]
On the role claims issue:
Post 356
(Post 223) looks pretty much like encouraging pushing peope into role-claims early, which would only help the mafia. A post on mason strategy suggesting working against the town (post 355) is a concern, but its clinched (for me) by Post 454
Not from my understanding of the rules, or from Kyrie’s post 402 - the masons also win if the town wins because all masons are town. However the town does not win if the masons win as not all townies are masons.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct about my mistake concerning town and mason wins. I had posted hastily while tired. The town does not win if the masons win. I realized my mistake when I woke up this morning and was going to post a correction except that you and another player had already caught it.
As for post 223, people voting gets people to talking to give everyone data to form opinions on their fellow players.
“Like politics, you might not vote for the right one, but you will learn something”
If we’ve managed to lynch scum, we get to look back to see who was defending him/her. Likewise, if the recently deceased is townie, we get to see who was pushing for it hardest.
I can see how that could look like I was pushing forcing role claims though. It was not my intent however.
[QUOTE=Lemur866]
I will say that now that we’re truly into the game everyone is posting, so there are no true lurkers anymore. But SnakesCatLady hasn’t posted anything of much substance. Of course she’s got a good reason…there’s nothing to post about. Except that applies to everyone.
So far I have no reason to change my vote.
Percypercy did hop on the Projammer bandwagon. I won’t vote against him based on that, but thats a data point to consider.
[/QUOTE]
You are right, Lemur866, I haven’t posted anything of much substance. This is my first time playing a game of this sort, so it is a learning experience for me. I am still suspicious of Lightnin’, and haven’t seen anything to change my mind. I have also started to wonder about percypercy. I don’t understand why she would accuse me of “laying low” when I had more posts at the time than she did. Trying to get the FOS to point elsewhere, maybe?
I may be too tenderhearted for this game, I hesitate to cast a vote without something strong to go on, and that is just not going to happen this early. Anyone feel like owning up to being scum? I understand confession is good for the soul.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
You are correct about my mistake concerning town and mason wins. I had posted hastily while tired.
[/QUOTE]
Considering how long this thread is getting I can understand that.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
As for post 223, people voting gets people to talking to give everyone data to form opinions on their fellow players.
“Like politics, you might not vote for the right one, but you will learn something”
[/QUOTE]
I disagree - votes are useful only if accompanies by analysis or justification. Votes without analysis or on spurious grounds are less useful - except as a possible scum indicator. A player posting lots of votes without accompanying analysis doesn’t help matters (although it does imply that maybe they have other information to go on that they aren’t releasing to the thread).
[QUOTE=Projammer]
If we’ve managed to lynch scum, we get to look back to see who was defending him/her. Likewise, if the recently deceased is townie, we get to see who was pushing for it hardest.
[/QUOTE]
If we lynch scum then yes the scum’s defenders (and the people pushing for it who aren’t likely to be in the same faction) are useful information to have. However, if we lynch town it’s less useful as its quite possible for a townie to start a bandwagon by mistake.
[QUOTE=Projammer]
I can see how that could look like I was pushing forcing role claims though. It was not my intent however.
[/QUOTE]
Understood. Regardless, my vote stays with percypercy, until I get some analysis or a concrete reason to unvote. (Two people have now requested percypercy’s viewpoint, and neither have received it. Requesting information without giving any doesn’t help the town much.)
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
However, I just can’t let this slip. Could you please explain exactly what I’ve done to
try to “play the townie without actually being one”?
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t post a detailed breakdown on your posts because I think others have stated pretty much the same case I would have, especially about you being over-defensive. As far as your posts that haven’t rang true to me, I’ll be happy to provide some examples.
In post 193 you say:
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
Well, I guess I’m just going to have to vote for DiggitCamara.
Why? He was pretty free with the accusation- with no evidence at all. Since the only one who would have any evidence at this point would be one of the fargin’ iceholes bad guys themselves, his vote has to be an attempt to redirect suspicion.
Of course, he might just be shootin’ in the dark. But tell me, my friends- do we, as good wholesome townfolk, want an itchy trigger finger like DiggitCamara around? I mean, heck- look at his username, fer cryin’ out loud! It doesn’t even make any sense, and therefore MUST be a pseudonym.
[/QUOTE]
[color removed, bolding mine]
This was early in the game, so as we’ve already established there’s going to be a lot of random voting going on. It wasn’t you voting for DiggitCamara that made me suspicious of this post, but the way you did it. It just struck me as false.
In post 227 dnooman calls you on your vote for DiggitCamara, saying it’s a more vindictive tone that he’d expect so early in the game. You respond to this in post 232:
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
While, yes, it does take more than one person with an itchy trigger finger to lynch someone, it only takes one FOS to get the suspicion started on that person… or, in DiggitCamara’s case, one vote for lynch. The fact that he started the day off with a call for lynchin’ makes me a bit nervous, hence my vote.
However, I think I am going to unvote DiggitCamara, and instead point the ol’ FOS onto him. His vote is the only thing he’s done that makes me a bit nervous, and I think we need more info before any sort of action should be undertaken (or not undertaken, whatever the case may be).
[/QUOTE]
[color removed]
This seems like a big contradiction to me. You vote for DiggitCamara because you’re nervous about anyone advocating an early lynch, where in post 232 you seem to be pushing hard to get DiggitCamara lynched. When called on it you unvote him. Rachm Qoch calls you on your unvote in post 321, and you respond by revoting DiggitCamara in post 323:
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
Is it defensive to reconsider? Heck, if you want, go ahead and count me a revote for DiggitCamara. I had originally voted to lynch him because I thought he jumped on Cookies awful fast and for no reason, and I thought THAT was a bit suspicious. Further conversation among everyone else seemed to indicate that the first day’s basically random, anyway, so I withdrew my vote.
But if it makes you feel better, let’s lynch Digg.
Of course, at this point, EVERYTHING is a reason to be suspicious. Should I be suspicious of everyone who’s suspicious of ME? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
[color removed]
That’s just plain odd. You seem to be trying to do whatever you think the town wants you to, reacting to the rest of the town instead of trying to find scum. This is also the post that you edited, and after Gadarene calls you on that, you get even more defensive. You defend yourself in post 346 (where you unvote DiggitCamara and vote NAF1138) and 354.
In post 361 you said:
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
Good explanation- and I think that was why I got so irritated at his nomination of me. As near as I could tell, I hadn’t done anything that I felt warranted any suspicion, especially since I retracted my first (admittedly random) vote- he seemed to be going out of his way to find something, anything, suspicious. And then he seemed self-congratulatory on his suspicion of me after I “confirmed” that suspicion by defending my actions.
It just seemed really random, and I can’t see any real use in doing it.
It’s also annoying in that I now feel frozen in indecision. If we defend ourselves, it’s suspicious. If we don’t defend ourselves, it’s suspicious. If we just keep quiet, we’re suspicious. If that’s the way this is played, why bother?
[/QUOTE]
This is one of your posts that really didn’t sit right with me. If you hadn’t done anything suspicious (which I disagree with), then getting really defensive about it doesn’t seem like a normal townie response. Sure, we all want to keep playing, but I think most townies develop a “kill me if you want, but you’re wrong” attitude when the lynch mob heads their way. In my limited experience I haven’t seen townies become frozen with indecision just because someone suspects them.
This post is getting really long, so I’ll just link to post 371, 384, and 391. All three hit my scumdar on little points, but they did start to get more reasonable. I think these posts are why NAF1138 backed off of his vote. They still sound a little too desperate to me, but not as much as the earlier ones.
In post 427 you ask this question:
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
I can’t remember, and the hamsters aren’t cooperating right now so I can’t go and look, but is a player’s affiliation revealed when he/she is lynched (or whatever) out of the game?
[/QUOTE]
It’s a small thing, but this hit my scumdar again. It just struck me as an odd question, perhaps by scum hoping that their role won’t be revealed if they are lynched? Of course, it could be a railroaded townie hoping to get the “I told you so” moment.
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
As for why I’m still maintaining that Naf is scum, the only thing I can point to is that he’s been very vocal, right from the beginning, in saying I’m acting suspicious. Once other people jumped on the bandwagon, though, he’s kinda backed off. That in itself makes me even more suspicious that he’s scummy- get the vote rolling, then back off so you look like one of the mob.
[/QUOTE]
And then there’s this. I’ve agreed with NAF1138 that you are acting suspicious, so his suspecting you isn’t a strike against him in my eyes. Neither is his backing off if he thinks Projammer is more likely to be scum than you are. You’re playing a little of the damned if you do, damned if you don’t game with him that irritated you so much about him (and others) suspecting you. Now that he unvoted you you’re now more suspicious of him?
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
I’m not necessarily saying he’s mafia… but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s mason.
[/QUOTE]
This hit my scumdar as well. It’s just an odd suspicion to have. I don’t think most of us are looking for masons right now. But scum are.
[QUOTE=nesta]
This was early in the game, so as we’ve already established there’s going to be a lot of random voting going on. It wasn’t you voting for DiggitCamara that made me suspicious of this post, but the way you did it. It just struck me as false.
[/QUOTE]
Whoosh. I was being flippant (did you not recognize the Johnny Dangerously quote?)- and at that point any votes were random, correct? Once the game got going, I became serious. There were a few other posters who, right at the beginning, used just as little justification for their first posts- how many people claimed they used random.org for their initial votes?
At that point, I wanted to keep playing. In my mind, I’d been singled out, right from the beginning, and it sure looked like I was just going to be sacrificed right from the start. Hey, if that’s the way the game’s played, at least say so.
This is my first time playing the game. From my point of view, I’d been selected as a sacrifice right from the start- and what really bugged me about it was that the posters who said that I was acting suspicious weren’t really being viewed as acting suspicious in their accusations of me. Since changing my initial vote made me appear scummy, then in my mind, changing my vote back to the way it was should’ve appeased their concerns. Of course, suddenly THAT became suspicious. sigh
Well, let’s see. Right from the start, I’d been accused of being scum. Any attempts to defend myself made me look even scummier. That morning, I’d decided that the only thing I could do would be let my lynching show that I was innocent, and that the people going after me were most likely the ones that really needed to be looked at. Hell yeah it was an “I told you so” moment.
Well, I do think it’s suspicious. He accused me strongly, right from the start. He had several other posters who agreed with him, right from the start. Who’s most likely to benefit from accusing someone else?
Would it have been less suspicious if I’d said that I think he’s Mafia? Or if I’d said that I thought someone else was my new suspicion? Remember- damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Accusing anyone else would’ve pinged scumdar. Dropping my accusation of him would’ve pinged scumdar. Keeping silent would’ve pinged scumdar.
And, apparently, clarifiying my position pings scumdar. :rolleyes:
Updated Vote Count
3 – Lightnin’ (Idle Thoughts, dnooman, Projammer)
3 – Omi No Kami (Rachm Qoch, Kyrie Eleison, CaerieD)
3 – Projammer (nesta, NAF1138, percypercy)
2 – NAF1138 (Hal Briston, Lightnin’)
2 – percypercy (DiggitCamara, tirial)
1 – Idle Thoughts (Blaster Master)
1 – CaerieD (Lemur866)
1 – Kyrie Eleison (Omi No Kami)
1 – nesta (ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)
The day will end in approximately twenty hours.
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
Well, I do think it’s suspicious. He accused me strongly, right from the start. He had several other posters who agreed with him, right from the start. Who’s most likely to benefit from accusing someone else?
Would it have been less suspicious if I’d said that I think he’s Mafia? Or if I’d said that I thought someone else was my new suspicion? Remember- damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Accusing anyone else would’ve pinged scumdar. Dropping my accusation of him would’ve pinged scumdar. Keeping silent would’ve pinged scumdar.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with nesta. Accusing someone of possibly being a Mason at this point in the game does more harm than good. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that the Masons would be working against the town. What do I gain from your suspicion? Well, you’d be really foolish to make that accusation if you are a mason, so I think that rules you out as one of them and, in turn, makes you less likely to be a townie. And if you are just a townie or another special role, and you’re trying to draw attention to probable Masons, then you’re helping the scum. So you’re a townie without our best interests at heart. The only people would are trying to find Masons now (and to induce paranoia among the town about a Mason win) are the scum.
As far as other suspicious players, I’m inclined to believe percypercy when she says she won’t post unless she has something to say. It’s not necessarily helpful, but I’m not reading anything more into it. And Projammer has cleared things up a bit, so I’m feeling less concerned about him.
Vote Lightnin’
[QUOTE=Millit the Frail]
I agree with nesta. Accusing someone of possibly being a Mason at this point in the game does more harm than good. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that the Masons would be working against the town. What do I gain from your suspicion?
[/QUOTE]
And what do you lose from my suspicion? The more we know about each other, the greater our chances of identifying scum.
Also, I’m hardly the only one who’s suspected others of being Masons.
[QUOTE=Lightnin’]
And what do you lose from my suspicion? The more we know about each other, the greater our chances of identifying scum.
Also, I’m hardly the only one who’s suspected others of being Masons.
[/QUOTE]
I meant “What knowledge do I gain about you from your suspicion?” What follows is what I feel we can draw from your posts.
Maybe I’m being hasty. I don’t know. I didn’t see Gadarene’s vote count post until after I posted. Now I feel a little leery about being the tie-breaker. But I have a wedding to get to in a couple of hours and I’m worried about not getting a vote in before the deadline! There’s plenty of time for things to turn around, and I’ll try to get up tomorrow and adjust (or not adjust) my vote accordingly.