I find it very “interesting” that neither Projammer or dnooman are taking the opportunity to contribute to the potential undoing of the other. Interesting in a way that makes me not surprised that you’re both tied for the hangman’s noose, and interesting in the way that you’re the same two folks I was pondering between for my vote back in post #690.
Well, if you think we’re both scum you’re at least half wrong. I have strong suspicions about Projammer but I am in no way certain about that. Why is everything that you post suspicious? You’re not inexperienced.
And you’re still the current holder of my FOS. Ponder that “tonight” while everyone is expressing their regret at having killed another townie.
Hmm. I can actually correct that since I’ve said I won’t hammer LIghtnin while he’s away.
Unvote Lightnin
Vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
FOS Lightnin
Everything I post is suspicious? Or everything I post is suspicions?
Either way, isn’t that how the game goes?
If Projammer turns up town, you look really scummy. You’re looking for a fight with no good reason. Maybe you know that we’re both town? Maybe Projammer is scum and you want scum-kill credit if he dies? Maybe you’re pitting town against town in hopes of a win-win situation? Maybe the scum have picked up on this and are in turn framing you.
On preview, Projammer’s behavior is starting to seem more reasonable to me ATM.
I’m good and ready to post my last defense, but at the moment it’s too soon. I was ready to post my last post right after nesta made the post asking for me to come out. Then Projammer showed up. So did Cookies.
I feel sorry for the innocent townies that get killed as a result of my death, I feel no remorse for the slimy scum that get exposed due to my baiting them.
I guess I think we should be seeing more people turn up out of the woodwork to defend dnooman or projammer if either were scum. The mafia HAVE to protect each other. Sure, if a mafia lynch is inevitable they’ll join in. But with only 5 or so votes, and 4-6 mafia, a push from the mafia could easily get someone else swinging. I’d expect a lot more work from scum to try to derail an anti-mafia bandwagon. Both projammer and dnooman’s bandwagons have drifted along without serious opposition.
I will say, any last minute flurry of activity against either one will be suspicious, anyone who shows up at the last minute to rescue dnooman/projammer and send projammer/dnooman to the gallows is likely a bad guy…if the lynch shows that we got the wrong person. Or persons.
I just want to raise a query here… I’ve been beating the “Death to lurkers!” drum recently and that’s going to keep me good and biased, but can I ask if it’s a good idea to put the most scrutiny on people who’ve been participating heavily? I can’t say I’m decided on Projammer but I don’t think anybody has nailed down a good, hard scum tell.
Because of that, I’m kind of dubious about lynching him right off; if I remember correctly (and I don’t have time to re-read the thread, I’m afraid 
), he’s been one of the more participate-y players… and that’s going to give us a lot more dialogue to chew through and analyze, so it’s obvious we’ll be able to find something incriminating.
With that having been said, I want to ask why we aren’t putting more scrutiny on the ‘neutral’ players? CaerieD’s been a lot more vocal recently and I’m trusting her a bit more, but Rachm Qoch and SnakesCatLady both stand out in my mind as being fairly conservative players; they’ll agree with current accusations, but I can’t remember either of them ever making a logical attack on anyone outside of day 1 when Caerie and I got into that dustup.
That having been said, is there a valid reason for us to be focusing on the people who’ve written a lot for us to look at, and not the ones who’ve potentially been flying under the radar by swaying with the public opinion?
(that’s why I haven’t, and currently don’t intend to, vote today: I haven’t seen any really good evidence for scuminess from anyone, and since the day 1 bit I’m only going to vote if I have a good reason.)
Oh! And for the record I’m thinking that Projammer is town (he’s been too visible for a clever mobster), and I’m undecided on dnooman.
Oh! And also for the record, I don’t think my ideals quite match my wording: rather than “Lynch the lurkers,” I’d like to say “Lynch the tactful”. Goodness knows it’s a valid strategy, and I’m probably the most guilty of reserving my opinions in this game, but I talk about my suspicions, and I think that’s vastly more valuable than the people who simply agree with existing accusations.
Neutrality is an extremely valuable talent, but it’s not particularly helpful in this kind of game. ^^
Damnit Omi, are you gonna make me have to change my threat table too?
“Lynch the tactful”?
I see that you’re trying to make a point, possibly a good one, but I’m not getting it. Are you saying that we should lynch those that don’t offer unique arguments and just vote the way that others do? That sort of thinking has it’s place for sure, but without specific accusations it is very little to no help. If you are town, the town needs to hear your suspicions, especially because you could potentially be a night kill that yields little or no info for the town.
After reviewing the entire thread three times, this whole Dnooman/Projammer situation leaves me feeling like we’re deciding which townie to lynch.
Dnooman, you offered some good advice to Lightnin’ in post #401:
And yet you were quick to agree with **fluiddruid’s **reasoning that a percypercy vote was a good vote since she hadn’t contributed much. Did it occur to you that you might be bringing about the very situation that you had warned Lightnin’ about, namely, that we might wind up with a lynched townie whose posts wouldn’t provide us with much insight?
You bring up a good point. I’m not advocating a change in tactics, I’m just trying to highlight what I percieve to be a very real danger: paranoia can quickly turn into a town’s worst enemy, causing extremely smart people to find extremely smart reasons to hang innocents. It’s easiest to become paranoid with people who post a lot, since we all know that any small mistake can be interpreted (and logically argued) as a scum tell.
With that in mind, my big concern is that a few clever players have probably already noticed that town’s main way of finding scum is by catching players who are trying to get people they know are innocent hung: bandwagoning, lying, obfuscating truths, twisting statements, all that good stuff. What I was trying to highlight with my posts is that the clever scum are going to figure out that the best way to hide is to stop accusing people, and start backing up other people’s claims.
Now that is NOT to say we should hang the people who try to analyze accusations. Like everyone has mentioned before, information is the town’s best friend. What I was trying to articulate is that it’s essential for us to seek out people who are being careful not to have firm opinions, since I think they can be more dangerous that the scum who are skillful at manipulating lynch mobs.
Look at it this way: one of the really valuable things about townies that we lynch during the day is the arguments to lynch them: it’s extremely helpful to see what arguments clinched the vote, so we can evaluate whether it was based on good evidence (someone in the town pulling a Winston, for instance 
), and as such an honest mistake, or whether someone was obviously pulling the strings to get this guy killed without a good reason.
The problem is, trying to get someone lynched without good evidence is a blaringly obvious scum tell. The reason I brought up the neutrality piece is because I percieve a real danger in scum who sit back, let a townie come up with an accusation, and go “Hey, that sounds logical!”, trying to validate the initial accusation without doing any significant analysis of their own.
After all, everybody is going to see this game in a slightly different way, and the scum will see it in a significantly different way than the town… as such, I think the way in which a player analyzes the game can be extremely telling. If a player consistently abstains from doing serious thinking, and always resorts to sitting in the crowd and backing the lynch mob’s faceman up, I think that player needs to be carefully scrutinized.
Does that make a little more sense?
I really have no idea where you’re headed with this. You have suggested more than once that Lightnin’ and myself are both town. It has become obvious enough IMO that I can now address it.
The Mafia do not have to protect each other. If anything a scum looks better if they have a confirmed scum vote to their name. I’m not Mafia, so there’s no scheme going on there. If Projammer is Mafia, they’d be wise to just let him swing. Too much defending him would look suspicious, and a vote for scum makes one less likely to be scum in the eyes of the town.
Are you saying that if anyone reconsiders their vote that they’re suspicious? That’s ridiculous. At this point votes moved to, or made for, people who have almost no chance of being lynched should be suspect, they are empty votes. Votes made for the sake of making one, often just to obfuscate allegiances.
We’re likely to see Mafia unvote in order to seem wise, and townies unvote in order to not kill a fellow townie.
The ones to cast the damning votes are likely to be either ballsy townies that trust their instincts (because they have no insider info) or ballsy Mafia looking to lynch a fellow Mafioso in order to look clean.
How great would that be for the Mafia to have us choosing between two townie lynches? They wouldn’t even have to intervene in order to score a townie lynch.
If you’re a townie, you need to think smart, not think the way that other people are thinking. You don’t have to choose option A or B, you can choose C or nothing at all. Just keep in mind that the Mafia are trying to hide in plain sight.
Of course it did. She read the advice just like all the rest of us, she chose not to respond. It was getting close to nightfall and a decision needed to be made. As you have recognized in previous posts, silent townies can only help scum. Remember agreeing with that? I was hoping that we were lynching a quiet scum. Turns out I was wrong.
I was bringing about the same situation I had warned Lightnin’ about? Where was everyone else’s sage wisdom? I stand by my vote for percypercy and I always will. It was a more sensible vote at the time because we as townies had no information, she was not providing anything new. A vote for her was a better vote at the moment than anyone who had a scum “vibe”. Logic people. It’s not always pretty.
I’m sick of this persecution about my percypercy vote. Once this is all over you can all do your research and see that my vote was the right one based on precedence.
Also, Omi, your explanation makes much more sense now. Thank you.
You’re welcome!
Post 746
Sorry, on checking the thread, my error.
And dnooman - given just how flaking the boards are being (they’ve been down for at least 4 hours from here) I wouldn’t leave posting your final speech until the last minute.
Post 741
Could you put the cross down while you’re climbing on the gallows? We need to find scum, not wannabe martyrs. If you have a defence please post it, while we still have time to analyse it (and hopefully a chance to read it).
–
Out-of-Game: I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve been having trouble with the boards over the last few days. Would anyone object if I took flat copies of the thread pages and put them on some spare webspace so if the boards go down again we can still read the thread and it doesn’t interrupt analysis?
I’d need to get moderator permission for this, so if any players have objections, please let me know before I approach them.
On preview: fluiddruid - any comments on this option?
Looking at dnooman’s comment in Post 744 - which start? - The percypercy bandwagon had two distinct groups: Diggit and I one day earlier, or fluiddruid (P493) and you (P495)? Yes a case could be made against fluiddruid, but then cases can be made against anyone. Unfortunately, any implication that this switch from Lighnin to percypercy was mafia driven, does imply that either the bandwagon falling apart put mafia player(s?) at risk, or that Lightnin is mafia.
The only reason to risk themselves like that if Lightnin was town is because if the bandwagon falls part someone else is put at risk.
When you suggest Diggit, I think he posted too far before the main bandwagon started to really be part of it. The same is pretty true of me and I’ve already posted my defense about the bandwagon.
I will be honest and say that since dnooman is busy being a martyr, I’m probably going to be looking closely at fluiddruid - not because I particularly suspect him, but because his vote did come before dnooman’s at the start of the bandwagon.
I still think we would learn a lot from looking at everyone on that bandwagon, even if dnooman remains today’s lynch target.
Can’t say that I’m terribly surprised that the votes are stagnating right now. I’d pretty much called it at the top of this page. Nobody wants to be the tie-breaker. We had Idle Thoughts making a pretty bold move there, but then Rachm Qoch shows up, losing all suspicion of dnooman so that the tie keeps going.
All right, I need to wake up a bit better and then I’m going to be looking over the thread again. There is the possibility that one or both of our lynch subjects here is town, which concerns me, but I still feel like dnooman is our best bet. I’m going to try going over all of this with an unbiased eye and see if that opinion changes.
But my point is that if there are two leading candidates, the mafiosi are going to try to swing the vote to one who isn’t mafia. If neither are mafia they won’t care which one goes down. But look at today’s situation. One or two votes could switch the tally to either of you. With 4-6 mafia, it seems to me that if either you or Projammer is a mafiosi, it would be pretty easy for them to protect one by sending the other guy to the gallows.
I’m not predicting we’ll see any such activity. So…what does that mean if it turns out to be true? That both you and Projammer are both town. If we DO see some last minute activity, those people are suspects, and the person they protected becomes a suspect. Of course, the likelyhood is that some of the votes against both you and Projammer are scum votes. But if you guys are both town, I suspect that there are FEWER scum votes than we expect. Mafia don’t care who the town lynches, as long as it isn’t mafia.