Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler

The Game Room
781

That makes no sense. Clever mafia are only going to defend occasionally - they are also going to attack occasionally. Who looks bad if a defended player gets lynched anyway and turns out to be scum?

Looking for such obvious links so early in the game isn’t going to help. There is a definite risk to defending other players facing a clear lynch, period – if you’re scum and they’re scum, you’ve created a connection between the two of you, and if you’re town and they’re scum, you’ve basically hung yourself at the expense of Town.

I’m not sure what to think about dnooman… I don’t think his vote is particularly incriminating, but, the way he’s defended himself seem more scummy than anything.

In regards to my vote, I explained it at the time and since - to me, it made the most sense given our information at the time. Whether or not I was right really depends on if Projammer, our other likely choice, is scum or not, which remains to be seen.

I’ll have to check.

782

Lemur866, the main flaw I see in that argument is that the Mafia are Dopers. They’re over-thinking this just like the rest of us. True, they don’t want to lose any of their numbers and will do their best to save their team, but these aren’t stupid people. They know that any last minute activity like that will make them suspects, especially since you’ve just laid it all out like that. They would rather let one of their own get lynched than risk the whole team for one player. At this point, I think the Mafia would prefer letting things stagnate, keeping a tie going the entire time up until the end when one or two votes will swing the lynch the way they want it. It’s not going to be a rush. If they do anything, it’s going to be a Hail Mary pass. They’re far better sitting back and letting the townies do something silly like rip each other apart over when so-and-so voted than risking it all for a single player.

783

Actually, no. I assume you’re talking about this?

I acknowledged that I understood your point; that’s a far cry from agreeing with your premise that silent townies do the town no good. The “death to lurkers!” and the “um, you with the rope” from one of the lower-post count posters, I thought would be seen as obvious over-the-top humor, but apparently it didn’t work as well as I had hoped.

I can’t fault you if I failed to communicate clearly with you, and I don’t want re-open the discussion about lurkers, but I do want to point this out to make sure that it’s clear to others. I in no way think that a strategy of lynching the lower-post-count folks benefits the town.

784

Sorry CaerieD but I can’t let this pass.
Post 782 "

This refers back directly to your earlier actions, and again highlights a possible contradiction.
Post 646

and Post 648

Are rather contradictory aren’t they? Which do you think is more likely - for them to sacrifice one of their own, or not? You’ve given two reasons for your actions, one because mafia will sacrifice their own this early, one because they won’t. Which is it?

In P646 you seem to say the mafia won’t sacrifice one of their own this early, in P648 you imply that it makes sense for them to sacrifice one of their own by piling on to look innocent. (That post also implies Projammer is town purely because they didn’t.)

Unfortunately, to a degree, this would also make sense for masons to do as well as mafia.

I wasn’t going to post this, until I saw your post and thought about it again. Then I realised I wasn’t holding off on this because of whether I though you were town or scum, but because of the way you have attacked any poster you even thought might think you were suspicious (e.g. the Omi no Kami v. **CaerieD ** debacle, my mentioning night postings). So I realised it might be better out in the open for other opinions.

So, please clarify your stance on scum actions, and whether or not they would sacrifice their own.

785

I believe what she’s saying is that if there is no chance of saving a mafia without drawing too much attention to themselves, they will go ahead and sacrifice one so that later they can say, “Hey! I voted to lynch ScumBoy back on day 2! That proves I’m town. Let’s string up Innocent now.”

786

Updated Vote Count

5 – Projammer (SnakesCatLady, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta, Millit the Frail, Rachm Qoch)
5 – dnooman (Lightnin’, DiggitCamara, CaerieD, Hal Briston, Idle Thoughts)
1 – ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (Projammer)
1 – CaerieD (Blaster Master)
1 – Kyrie Eleison (fluiddruid)
1 – SnakesCatLady (Lemur866)

Remember that the day ends at 6:00 p.m. Eastern time on Saturday evening. I won’t be around then—my plane leaves this afternoon, and I return on Sunday—so assuming we make it all the way to the deadline without a lynch, there may be a bit of an unavoidable delay before everyone finds out the results. Alternatively, I may try to pop in and post the result, although I’ll have to leave out the extended and always entertaining (well, to me) death scene. Apologies in either case.

787

Yes, that’s what I was saying. They aren’t going to purposefully sacrifice one of their own, but they’re not going to sacrifice the whole lot of themselves for one either. When your goal at the end of the game is numbers, it only makes sense to avoid an “all for one and one for all” mentality. To play the game looking for that kind of behavior is folly, because it’s not going to happen. It’s too obvious for them to make a production out of saving one another.

788

This is my final defense.

What follows is a list of my candidates for scum in order of how scummy they are coming off to me.
Scum:
Idle Thoughts
DiggitCamara
tirial

Maybe Scum:
Projammer
Lightnin’
fluiddruid
ComeToTheDarkSide
CaerieD

Not sure:
Millit The Frail
Lemur866
Kyrie Eleison
Hal Briston
Rachm Qoch
Blaster Master

Probably Town:
nesta
SnakesCatLady
Omi No Kami

Definitely Town:
NAF1138
percypercy
dnooman

Who is the easy target today? Me. Is that my own fault? Of course it is, only I am responsible for my posts. I have been purposely trying to get a lot of discussion and votes going, if they happened to land on me, no real matter.

I was dealt the role of Citizen. No power role, no insider knowledge, not even a dogooder. I was dealt this same role in the last game and my existence in the game was pointless. I thought about what the best and worst case scenarios for me might be in this game with the same role. Obviously the best case scenario would be for me to be alive at the end with the town winning. I’m nowhere near optimistic enough to think that that’s even a remote possibility for me.

I figure that the worst case scenario for me would be to die without having given the town any info to go on. I think I’ve prevented my own worst case scenario in that regard, there has been plenty of talk, and plenty of fingers pointed at me for my unabashed and aggressive theorizing. When I die, the town will know that I was a Citizen, and they can look into the people who wanted to spill my blood the most. The only way this could backfire writ large is if the Mafia just sat back and watched the town tear me apart. I really don’t think that is happening. This is evidenced by my list of whom I think are Mafia (which was created after Lightnin’ voted for me, no OMGUSing here, I promise).

I voted for a townie, chances are I’m not the only townie to have done so, nor will I be the last. That’s what happens folks, sad but true. You all know this, yet some people are trying to portray me as some sort of pivotal voter with a scum agenda. Come on. I do not feel good about percypercy being dead. I also do not blame myself for having made a stupid mistake, because I didn’t make a stupid mistake, I made an uninformed one.

I think I have provided some very useful strategy and ideas for the town, and I know that I have generated a lot of discourse. Hopefully most of the people voting for me and the people at the top of my list are scum, if so, you have a roadmap to victory. There is, however, almost no chance that I have guessed who all the mafia are as noted in my list, all I have are guesses and instincts. I think the final analysis will show that I was on to a scum or two.

I am not a fool. I am not a great mafia player either. I am, however, aware of what I’m typing here and why I’m typing it. Look over my posts and see if it looks like I’m trying to mislead anyone. I assure you I’m not, this will be proven upon my death as well.

Bandwagons seem to be a popular topic in this iteration of the game. There have been a few bandwagons that I was not a part of, but nobody like to look at the other side of the coin do they? I was not involved with the “voting clusters” (in case some people refute that there ever was a bandwagon) for NAF1138, Projammer, DiggitCamara, or Omi No Kami. The scum are most likely going to let their votes for me stand (or retract them just to look more pro-town once I’ve been killed), so I’m mainly adressing this to my fellow townies. If you feel like the most information will be gained from my death at this point, then go ahead and lynch me. I will say for the record that my behavior is due to my expendable role. Do you think that after I swing you are more likely to say “Wow, that scum was stupid, he just came right out there and got himself lynched!” or “Crap! He was doing just what he said he was, putting his neck on the line (literally) in order to get the scum to slip up.” I realize that any position at this point can either be taken at face value, or as a trick. I am not, nor can I be, tricking the Mafia or the scum. The only people left have a decision to make that is hopefully pro town, otherwise there’s just an autopsy. That can be useful too, but dead townies do not help our total.

There are a few scenarios that I’ve thought about that might clear my name, but none of them are in the best interest of the town. For example “have the detective invetigate me”, that would prove my innocence, but it would wast a possible scum investigation and would require the detective to potentially out themselves which would be very bad. Then there’s the “kill person x and if he’s town then kill me”. The problem with this is that I only have guesses at the moment, if I were to pick someone high on my list and they turned out Mafia, great. If i picked someone that was town, we’re two townies down, plus a night kill in between them.

If the detective investigated me last night (I highly doubt it) I think that they should keep my town status, and their detective status secret. I’m gonna die regardless, no need to take down a power role with me. I’m curious as to whether the Mafia would kill me tonight because of my remarks, or if they’d let me live to get lynched another day. Probably the latter, there have to be a few townies in the group that wants me to swing. All-mafia lynches have to be a very rare thing indeed.

In the interest of trying to stay alive I’ll vote Projammer.

Call this “being a martyr” all you want. The end result is all that matters.

789

True, but risking one to save one makes sense, which is the scenario we were discussing. Again its only risking one to save one if** Projammer ** is scum. I do find it interesting that **Projammer ** was the first person to argue against my post, due to your vote being the one that took him out of danger on day one.

Still not sure, but frankly I think Projammer still comes off as scum more strongly than dnooman.

Vote projammer

By the way, I will be away for most of Saturday, but I will be checking this evening and tomorrow morning early.

790

Well, as I said before, it’s going to be very useful information when you end up dead, dnooman. And that information is going to be very helpful to us. Unfortunately, the only way for you to be proven innocent is once you’re dead. So no matter how much I’d like to prove that you’re a townie, killing you to prove you’re a townie is a pretty dumb move. Goose, eggs, etc. I can’t help but think that many of the town votes against you (as you say, it can’t all be mafia votes against you) are done by people who want their curiosity satisfied. But that isn’t a helpful strategy.

Also, you made only one mistake on your “definately town” list. Since you don’t have my inside information it’s an honest mistake.

791

Color me… unimpressed by your alleged farewell post, dnooman.

The lynchpin of my lynching vote is (or are) your posts shortly prior and shortly after the vote swing against percypercy. And I don’t think you have explained them enough.

However, the way votes are going right now, I doubt very much we will see you swinging… and it’s quite likely Projammer is going to hang for the same reason we saw another quiet player hang.

792

Frankly, dnooman, I’m not sure if you’re being honest. Let’s say that you are for the sake of argument. You’re emphatically NOT the easy target. You know who is? Projammer. Narrowly averting a lynch at the last minute is far more suspicious than your vote for percypercy.

I’m not sure what to think of this. My gut says that these are the words of scum trying to avoid an easily disprovable role claim. You’re appealing to our emotions and you’ve been doing so all day. You “are tired” of being blamed for your vote. You feel your involvement is “pointless”. You’re not optimistic you’ll stay in the game. We’re supposed to feel really sorry for you. I don’t think so.

We’re all at risk of a lynch, and you’ve casually listed out who you feel is scum and who’s not. Fine. Maybe it’s the last ditch effort of a townie - but you haven’t given us much information about why you’re pointing blame and why you’ve given others a pass.

In the end you have tried to craft a good defense. I have to say it worked, Projammer now has a definite lead in the votes.

Look, I don’t blame you for voting. It was Day One for gods’ sakes. I voted for percypercy too and I agree that it seemed like a good idea at the time. You are acting like a martyr and frankly I don’t see a lot of reason for a legitimate townie to do so. In this game, emotional decisions are bad decisions.

From my interpretation, however, you’ve only damaged town today. At best, you’re a vanilla townie who’s tipped his hand and made other townies with power roles that much more likely to get a night kill. At worst, you’re scum doing the gallows dance.

vote dnooman.

793

… shouldn’t you unvote Kyrie Eleison first? :dubious:

794

Oh yeah, oops. unvote Kyrie Eleison. I didn’t think about doing that if I was voting for someone else right away. :slight_smile:

795

Well crap.

I was really hoping to avoid this, but it seems that I’m going to have to out myself to give people time to reconsider.

I’m one of the Do-Gooders.

That being said, I’m now just a vanilla townie.

I’m effectively neutralized as a power role.
There’s now zero chance that the mafia will try to recruit me.

On the other hand, lynched is about as neutralized as you can get.

Then, on the third hand, make that left foot, they weren’t likely to try anyway the way I’ve been having to dodge accusations

Sorry to derail your bandwagon again folks.

I’m still not reading dnooman for scum, but considering the way I’ve been playing, I might not be the best judge.

796

Updated Vote Count

7 – Projammer (SnakesCatLady, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta, Millit the Frail, Rachm Qoch, dnooman, tirial)
6 – dnooman (Lightnin’, DiggitCamara, CaerieD, Hal Briston, Idle Thoughts, fluiddruid)
1 – ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (Projammer)
1 – CaerieD (Blaster Master)
1 – SnakesCatLady (Lemur866)

And I’m off. See y’all in a bit. Play nice.

797

Aaaaaaand now that we’re apparently back…

(I scrolled through my history a few inches in hopes that this post was still in my cache somewhere prior to the hamster rebellion)

I’m going to have to call :dubious: on this correlation to circumstances on GameDay 1 as well.

You honestly think Projammer has the vote lead because he’s “quiet”?

798

I’m going to try this again since the hamsters ate my post.

Lemur866 - wouldn’t scum be afraid to actively defend scum? If they go on record as defending scum it is there for all the town to see once the scum swings. I think scum would be more likely to try to deflect votes onto another player than to actively defend. Of course, you may have made that mistake yourself if Lightnin’ turns out to be scum.

Omi no Kami - I was the first to vote for Projammer this game “day”. Please explain to me how this makes me “agree with current accusations”? I am not following your logic and I would like to understand if I am misunderstanding you, because you are seriously starting to ping my scumdar.

In light of Projammer’s recent role claim, I have a question. If he is a Do-Gooder, would that become known after he was lynched? It seems very questionable that he would claim a role that cannot be verified. If he is Do-Gooder it would appear to me that he has only postponed his death from day to night, because as a known townie this early in the game I would think it in the Mafia’s best interest to go ahead and off him. We can’t verify that he is town, but he wants us to select another target. If we do select another target he lives until night. If he’s not town, but scum, the Mafia isn’t going to off him. (Would they? Do they off their own?) However, the way I see it, they might not off him even if he is town because they want to confuse us.

So color me confused. I am not changing my vote at the moment but I may do so after reading discussion of this role claim and its effects on the town in general.

Now I will copy this post and hope the hamsters don’t eat it.

799

Nope. I think he’s got the vote lead because

  1. he had gathered up enough suspicion on Day One and
  2. because he didn’t defend himself effectively during this day
800

To be clear, I’m not imagining a massive PR campaign by the mafia to save another scum. Just that a couple of votes shifted here or there can turn the tide from one player to another. A mafiosi is much more likely to pile on another vote onto a townie than vociferously defend another mafiosi.

Of course, since everyone is on guard against such behavior, it probably won’t happen.