The only reason I think she might be the breadcrumb is because Kyrie voted for her after I did. I was suspicious enough of her before that vote to vote for her, but that nailed it for me.
From what I saw of her posts on the first day, it seems rather unlikely.
She remarked on several of NAF’s posts, so it seems likely she investigated him (well… likely to me. If and when I’m killed I’ll be sure to ask her in the forbidden thread
)
If I ignored when Kyrie voted for NAF and the fact he moved Omi no kami onto less than halfway through the day , I might agree with you. As it is I don’t think he investigated NAF - his vote was an early game starter, and he moved onto suspecting others.
Regarding the NAF vote:
Kyrie vote 189
unvote 210
And then queries Hal Briston. (Hal is not the crumb cos he wasn’t mentioned the next day.)
Motive for investigating fluidruid? P289, P347, P395.
Why didn’t he investigated Omi no Kami? Because Kyrie didn’t mention him again the next day, despite never unvoting him, and didn’t leave a breadcrumb saying he was innocent.
Regarding the breadcrumb, he acknowledges there are flaws with his anti-FOS Blastermaster P701 P705, but just keeps going after fluiddruid.
Sounds right. I hadn’t looked at fluiddruid’s posts (especially that last one).
Or, like this quote says
And after dint of much copying and pasting, a summary of every one of Kyrie’s posts is below. For those who don’t feel like reading them all:
He only mentions 4 posters by name: fluiddruid, projammer, blastermaster and dnooman.
- He makes several statements that he can’t tell the difference between dnooman and projammer - unlikely if he’d investigated one.
- He anti-FOS’s Blastermaster then withdraws it when challenged.
- He suggests fluiddruid and defends the vote, even knowing there is an argument against it.
Kyrie Elesion - P628 answers dnooman re silent townies.
Kyrie - P701 Anti FOS Blastermaster
Kyrie - P705 Didn’t stand by anti FOS when challenged “Crap, I feel foolish now – that was just plain ol’ dumb.”
Kyrie - P722 Projammer/dnooman makes him feel like we are deciding which townie to lynch.
Kyrie - P783 arguing with dnooman.
Kyrie - P813 Gives lots of reasons to vote fluiddruid, and votes fluiddruid. “Since my gut tells me that both dnooman and Projammer are town”
Kyrie - P819 defends vote for fluiddruid. “Kyrie spent the day pondering whether he could make some distinction between dnooman and Projammer, both of whom seemed roughly equally likely to be town, or whether to vote for someone he really considered likely to be scum but had no chance of overcoming the momentum already built up against the two of you, or whether to fail to vote altogether.”
“I’d like to say now that I voted for fluiddruid while fully cognizant of the argument that will arise from Rachm’s post, quoted here.”
Kyrie P823 - withdraws a question to dnooman
Kyrie P824 - two line post follows on from one above
He withdrew his vote for Naf early on - it was made because he had as he said, nothing better to go on. He then voted Omi no Kami (possibly as a revenge vote), but he literally never mentions him in Day 2.
Fluiddruid spent several posts naming Kyrie as scummy along with lightnin’, so there was a motive for Kyrie to investigate him.
*Insert “From Day 2” here please.
I just don’t see what others are seeing with regards to NAF supposedly being the most likely to be invesitaged. I could be mistaken, but the last thing I can find with Kyrie directly stating anything about NAF is here in post #499:
We’re supposed to conclude from this that NAF was Kyrie’s prime suspect? If anything, this says NAF is the least likely of those named as being the target of Kyrie’s first investigation. fluiddruid – quite possibly. Blaster Master – maybe. NAF and Omi no Kami – probably not.
Well… what do we know about Kyrie’s gamestyle after all? If I were the detective, I’d be leaving my top five FOS’s every day (and my five “trusted citizens” for that matter).
Maybe she (he?) wasn’t trying to hide at all.
And we should be considering why she was targeted by the Mafia as well. Was it because of her strong fingerpointing? I don’t think the Mafia had strong suspicions she had a power role; it would have served them better to recruit her in that case.
If fluiddruid is the breadcrumb, then it’s possible that the Mafia didn’t think much of that vote at all, considering it a lucky guess. As this isn’t a particularly large game, it is possible that the Mafia aren’t carefully avoiding from killing any townies that finger real scum. Sure, they could avoid all lucky guessers in the hopes of finding the Detective, but doing so would leave a lot more lucky guessers in the game until they found the one they wanted to recruit. If they weren’t actively looking closely for the Detective, they might have just nabbed somebody they thought was a lucky guesser.
Personally, I think they’d prefer to go for townies who had fingered other townies and I’m inclined to think fluiddruid isn’t scum because of that, but if all my theorizing on how they’re playing the game is wrong then fluiddruid might be the breadcrumb after all.
OK, I see a couple possibilities. All assume that the mafia didn’t know Kyrie was the detective, but they did know Kyrie had fingered fluiddruid.
-
They killed Kyrie because she was on to them, and wanted her out of the way. This means fluiddruid is scum.
-
They killed Kyrie because she fingered a townie, and wanted to increase suspicion on a townie in the hopes that the town would lynch another townie for them. This means fluiddruid is town.
-
They killed Kyrie becuase she was on to them, and figured that they could get away with it because it looks like a frame-up. This means fluiddruid is scum.
-
All other meta and meta-meta and meta-meta-meta permutations. Not worth considering, because as CaerieD points out this isn’t a chess game in the movies where you can manipulate events precisely. These all collapse into 2 or 3 anyway.
ummm… what?
What I was trying to say is that Mafia’s best strategy in this game would have been to try to recruit the Detective as soon as they found out who it was.
I also was trying to say that Mafia’s reasons to eliminate someone are very important to townies. Sure, they could be using Random.org’s oracle to choose their victims, but I think there is *some *kind of strategy involved. Since it wasn’t suspicion that Kyrie was the detective (at least, I don’t think it was), one possibility was her “finger-pointing”. And I’m asking whether anyone can think of a different reason.
… what were you trying to say? ![]()
I don’t understand your reasoning here. Wouldn’t mafia want to leave townies who are fingering other townies (ooooh that sounds dirty) alive? If townies are raising suspicion against other townies they are doing the mafia’s work for them!
Actually, I spent one post naming him as scummy in Day One. I did again in Day Two, but that would have been after the investigation occurred.
My post was as follows:
You responded to this, saying:
You also voted for Kyrie Eleison on Day One, as you’ll recall, as well.
Frankly I think the town is being completely bandwagoned, whether by Mafia or just misled townspeople I’m not sure. But, if you look at who are the sharpest and most passionate advocates against me, you have:
- Snakecatlady: Voted for me on Day Two to avoid breaking the tie between dnooman and Projammer
- tirial, did not vote on Day Two
- Omi no Kami, did not vote on Day Two
See a pattern here? These are your emerging leaders in lynching me.
To a point, but it’s stupid for the Mafia to only lynch their critics. Look at what’s happening to me today, since you assume I’m Mafia.
No, I did not vote for you to avoid breaking the tie between dnooman and Projammer. I unvoted Projammer after he role-claimed. I was not suspicious enough of dnooman to vote for him (and as it turns out, rightly so), so I changed my vote to someone I was suspicious of.
I may be missing something, but this makes no sense to me. Who else is the mafia going to go after? Their allies?
Looks like three to me.
P289 “Kyrie Eleison has been pinging my scumdar a little bit too”
P347 "Second on my list was Kyrie Eleison. He too voted for NAF and there is something about this post that really rings wrong for me. "
P395 “As I’ve stated, Lightnin’ and Kyrie are my main contenders at this stage of the game.”
Also
No I didn’t. Omi No Kami responded. Please don’t get your posters mixed up.
- Yes tirial did vote - it was for Lightnin’ and if I hadn’t remembered he was offline I wouldn’t have unvoted him. As it was, someone whose offline can’t defend themselves, so we gain nothing. I’d been out a chunk of the day and really wasn’t sure with regard to dnooman or Projammer.
Why does every one of your posts sound this way?
The fact is that the Mafia have no “allies”. The only thing they have is townspeople who are voting for other townies.
It doesn’t make sense for Mafia always to vote for people who are voting for them.
It doesn’t make sense for Mafia to always vote for people who are voting for townspeople.
Surely this makes sense. What I’m trying to say is that trying to boil strategy down so simply is not helpful. Ultimately, if the Mafia play well, then they’re not going to be identified by such easy patterns.
Sorry, I freely admit I am having trouble keeping up with everything thrown at me, and I’m at work. In any case, I pretty much am dead anyway, so I guess it doesn’t matter for much, since I have no further suspicions to point out for Town in future days that I haven’t brought up earlier.
Rephrasing the above:
“Personally, I think they’d prefer to go for townies who had been fingered by other townies…”
In which case I can see where you were going, and it is a scum strategy that has been previously been discussed in this thread.
If what you meant to say is exactly how you said it, then I’m as confused as SnakeCatsLady.
Sorry, I seem incapable of communicating clearly today. I was trying to put forth a theory for Kyrie’s death. Let me try rephrasing: It’s possible that fluiddruid is the breadcrumb and the Mafia just didn’t consider that Kyrie was the Detective voting with foreknowledge. They can’t logically consider every player who makes a lucky guess a potential recruit. Likely we’ve all managed to look suspiciously at one of the scum by this point.
So, then, if fluiddruid is scum, the Mafia might have offed Kyrie for the finger-pointing without realizing that they had the Detective. Why they’d kill Kyrie for the finger-pointing and not SnakesCatLady doesn’t make much sense unless you think that SnakesCatLady is scum, which I do.
Even so, I’m still uncertain about fluiddruid, but I am fairly sure of my vote, so I’m sticking with it.