Mafia: The Mob is Recruiting [Game Finished]

You gonna believe him? Just like that?

Argh. I’m actually kind of glad he didn’t wait until the last minute, since last-minute role-claims always fuck things up, but at this rate we’re going to force half the Town to role-claim before the Day is out. (And really, Pleo, we have a good few days left before Nightfall - there might not have been any need for you to role-claim in the end.)

I do find it kind of odd that an experienced player such as Pleonast role-claimed so quickly. On the other hand, it seems like scum would role-claim at the last minute instead of now, to give people less time to mull it over.

Argh. I have evening classes to prep for - catch y’all later.

Wouldn’t role claiming at the last moment just mean that you’d get lynched anyway because of all the people who didn’t get a chance to change their vote before the day ended?

Based on previous involvement, I think it’s more like you claim when there’s just enough time for a lynch to be reversed but not like fifteen minutes before the sun goes down.

I’ll have to keep this in mind.

Changing your vote at the last minute so that there’s a tie and no one dies is also frowned upon. (I…may have accidentally done this.) Granted, we don’t have ties in this game.

On further reflection, I found Hazel’s defense of Pleo interesting and thought perhaps it was the sign of some sort of information, perhaps Masonhood. However, it can’t possibly be Masonhood because then Pleo would have claimed Mason. It could also have been that Hazel was some sort of investigative role, but then why would she defend him then sort of change her mind when he actually claims a role?

IOW, I could have seen a pro-town motivation for her defense of him, but I can definitely eliminate one, and likely eliminate the other. Hence, I find the pro-town motivation particularly lacking in this behavior.

Thus, in the context of my previously stated suggestion, though I hope some discussion will arise about how to handle Pleo and his claim, I would like to hear more out of Hazel. So…

Vote HazelNutCoffee

Keeping this off Pleo then, should we start to look closer at the motives of those that jumped so quickly on the pronoun mistake? I’ll need some time with this.

The timing of a role-claim is a delicate matter and should be taken into consideration. If it’s done too late, you may get lynched anyway because there’s not enough time to analyze or for people to change their votes. Or, if it’s too late, there may be a panic trying to find an alternative, resulting in another townie lynch anyway without an opportunity for that person to adequately defend himself. If you do it too early, you may role-claim unnecessary, thus revealing information to the scum that doesn’t need to be revealed or you may look suspicious as scum trying to get out of the hot seat.

IME, use your judgment. Try to defend yourself revealing the least amount of information as you can. A role claim is a last ditch defense, but it should still be taken into account that it will need to be discussed and an alternative lynch candidate will need to be found with sufficient time to build a case, let him defend himself, and potentially role-claim as well.

IOW, there is no rule of thumb, but it should be done as late as possible with regard to your defense, but as early as possible with regard to the end of the Day. Using a “do it 24 hours before the end of the Day” may not be good, because that could preclude several days where we could have potentially discussed someone else or some other strategy.

But to answer your question, yes, role-claiming at the last minute is not a pro-town action; however, it is not necessarily an anti-town action either.

Seemed to me like the motivation was to try to catch scum.

I’m not sure it’s particularly fruitful. There’s always a tendency to look for those sorts of clues. What people don’t realize is that these sorts of “slips” tend to be just as likely to find town as scum. If you want to see a legitimate slip, look at Pygmy’s slip in the Cult Mafia game… THAT is a slip.

That said, I do find one person a bit suspicious, and that’s because of her hypocritical reasoning. Hockey Monkey was NOT the first person to point out the slip, but WAS the most vocal.

Hypothesis: Hockey Monkey is the Boss. When the slip was called on, she quickly jumped on to drive a wedge between her and Pleo, surely if the Boss is female, she wouldn’t push that since it would drive more suspicion on her… right? If Pleo IS the recruit and she leads the charge, she would be relatively suspicion free for a while, allowing her to sit back and recruit away.

Of course, I don’t think this is a particularly likely scenario, but it is enough for me to be suspicious of her. She’s another I wouldn’t mind hearing more from, other than sheer aggression.

Yeah, I agree. I don’t think it’s exactly scummy to jump on the first scumtell (real or imagined) of the game. But of course, my vote sits on Pleo as we speak, so YMMV. Not to mention that not everyone who has voted for Pleo so far can be scum, since there’s only 1-2 scum at the moment anyway.

I’ll respond to this

with this

Menocchio (4) - Diomedes*, dotchan, CapnPitt, Pleonast
Pleonast (3) - Menocchio, Freudian Slit, bufftabby, (Diomedes)
Freudian Slit (1) - Hawkeyeop
bufftabby (1) - Idle Thoughts
HazelNutCoffee (1) - Blaster Master

  • = Voted, unvoted, revoted

Fair enough; however, I did say that I didn’t think it was a particularly likely scenario. Perhaps I was to verbose, but what it really boils down to was, of those who were on the Pleo slip wagon, I found Hockey Monkey to have the greatest potential for anti-town motivation. I’m asking her to explain herself and her motivations, as well as the apparent contradiction.

The statement you quoted as a response was one of tendencies. Essentially, because the plot is somewhat complicated, I’m not willing to put a lot of stake into it; however, it would not be in the best interest of the town if I without an articulable suspicion, regardless of its actual likelihood. That is, if I’m suspicious of someone, but can’t put my finger on it, it’s not really worth anything until I can support that suspicion with reasoning. In this case, I’m not hugely suspicious, but I did notice something that I think warrants further investigation, whether it’s “Yeah, she pinged me too, let me explain…” or “Dude, I don’t see it.”
This all leads back to my theory regarding the game. I assume that the scum (particularly if there’s more than one) are likely as smart as I am and thus are likely to reason out similar conclusions that I can. I am also of the mind that information generally favors the town (with some glaring exceptions). Thus, our goal should be to maximize the information gain, which can only be accomplished by actually sharing it.

And so, to you, I must ask… why so keen on defending her? At this early stage of the game, defenses generally should be looked upon with suspicion. Only those with special information (pro-town power roles and scum) have any reason to trust any reason to express any amount of trust in another individual. Thus, it is not in the interest of scum to express trust in scum or pro-town to express trust in pro-town. However, these sorts of defenses can, and often do, lead to two very negative outcomes for the town. The first, being townie defends townie against townie, and we end up with cliques of pro-town people in-fighting, resulting in no progress. Or, worse, when that townie is eventually lynched, that scum would have the moral high ground and may be reduced in suspicion OR if that person lives, may be looked upon later with less suspicion by that person or even defended, resulting in HIS lynch when the scum eventually get’s lynched.

IOW, if you can provide a reasoned explanation for why I shouldn’t be suspicious of her, then please do. But if you’ll simply attack my point, with something I admitted as I made the point, it will only make me question your motivation because, as I explained, there’s very little pro-town motivation for such behavior at this point.

Ok, Pleo here’s my problem with you: from post 307:

You have complained several times that you were cheated out of Day 1. However;
In post 63 you state:

You got exactly what you wanted. What more would you have done with a longer Day 1 than you did?

I’m not going into the pronoun thing, but do think it’s strange and something to take into account. I personally think the ‘lame’ win idea is lame.

On Day one we would have either killed a Townie or WON the game. Today we either kill a Townie or kill one of possibly two Mafia. If the Boss did recruit, even if we kill a Mafia member, we still won’t win. This is better why?

How do the Mafia know anymore Today than they did Yesterday? Today the Mafia have little or no extra information unless the person recruited was a detective, beat cop, police chief, or mason. Otherwise the only tidbit of information they share is knowledge of each other if the Boss succeeded in recruiting.

Only if the Boss successfully recruited. Non-recruitables: Doctor or the one he protects, Vig, Priests (1-3?), Bishop, Masons (2-3?) 50%. Back of envelope calculation, Blaster correct me if I’m wrong: Assuming 1 Priest and 2 Masons the chance for failure is about 21%. Assuming 2 Priests and 3 Masons the chance for failure is about 28%. The Boss could have killed instead of lynching; chance of failure 4.3%. We don’t know we have doubled our odds.

underlining mine.
And here you, yourself, have just claimed at the drop of a hat on Day 2. Your whole premise pre-Day 1 was that we don’t want to out power roles and then you outed yourself at basically the start of Day 2. WTF? If you are a priest you have now given the Mafia a slightly better chance to recruit and made yourself a target to be killed.

Then there’s your “Hal is a townie” post. I kept looking at that post thinking, “Why does this make Hal a townie?” So what am I missing here that says “Hal is a townie” in bright shining letters?

I’m holding my vote for the time being.

What’s the harm in believing him? He’s bound to be investigated, and guaranteed pro-town roles like Priests are important to keep around. It’s hard to metagame with any certainty the reasons behind the early reveal, but I appreciate the fact that the town actually has enough time to digest the roleclaim, unlike the usual 6-hours-to-go Claim.

I don’t know if I buy the roleclaim. I seriously question whether Pleonast is worth keeping around for the slim chance that he’s telling the truth and is a power role. If his identity is known, a Priest isn’t even very useful–why would we care to keep him around now? He gets one chance to protect one person from recruitment–only one in the whole game. His main power is making it harder for the Boss to successfully recruit.

That, combined with his letting past-game frustrations come out, combined with sinjin’s very astute analysis, makes my mind up for now.

Vote Pleonast.

I agree that we should let him pass -for now- but I still think that the early role claim was *really *suspicious.

Not only because it was so soon, but also because he had me right behind him on the town’s kill list. And because so few votes have been cast. As of fluiddruid’s last accounting, only 10 votes have been cast, out of 23 people.

I’d like to hear from some new voices. Both in votes (be free with your votes, you can’t trigger an early lynch and can change it as much as you’d like) and in opinion.

Well, in his defense, he’s right. :slight_smile:

Okay… whew, this is NOT going to be an easy game to keep up with. Maybe there’s no such thing, with dopers! I’ve done read through the whole thing now, and started a list of notes.

Not quite sure about Pleonast’s role claim, probably best to leave it be for a little while and see what happens with it.

I’m going to jump in with a [color=blue]Vote Hazelnutcoffee** at this point, though I don’t have a smoking gun - partly because I think I’m inclined to trust Blaster Master’s judgement a little, (he’s our prophet of madness, and that’s a good thing! :slight_smile: ) and partly just because I’ve found it hard to get a read on her. Nothing terribly personal.

My other FOS are way off where nobody else seems to be looking at the moment -I FOS Diomedes for being so assertive at the start, and for ‘going to turd’, and I FOS CapnPitt for looking out for his number one, and for mentioning that he’s a wagon jumper. But my finger may not be very well tuned at this point.

I definitely do not FOS Menocchio at this point, but suspect that he’s casting himself into the role of the wise sage who gets killed off because he’s so valuable to the town. Then again, in this variant, he might get recruited, so that the Mafia can take advantage of any trust we have in him. Darn, this recruitment thing is tricky.

bufftabby seems to be too naive and exuberant to be an effective scum, though that might all be a put-on. (Loved the karaoke by the way!) And though Freudian Slit is a bit harder to get a read on, I tend to trust those who bring up Aesop.
Now I’m logging off. See yas all later.