NAF - Why are the three of us on your PNC list?
BlaM because of our interaction yesterDay.
You because you missed almost a whole Day, and I don’t think you would have done that had you just been recruited. Not really your style.
Hawk for reasons I honestly don’t remember, but that’s why I am keeping notes this game. I think it had to do with his beat cop idea, I can’t see any pro scum reason for bringing up an idea that will a) probably get him a dose of suspicion and b) might actually make things harder for scum if it is adopted.
Not that scum wouldn’t do it, but I can’t see why.
I hadn’t noticed the timing of his post, so I’ll have to go double check, but I’m of a similar mind that it was a comment on how the Day went. Sure, things COULD have gone well IF dotchan [Ver. 1] had been scum, but in the manor in which the Day was carried out, it would have been just shy of pure dumb luck.
That said, I’m going to go look at it again in context…
YesterDay was a complete clusterfuck. I will vote earlier toDay.
Hockey outed herself as a time traveler.
Hawkeye, I don’t understand what you mean.
Generally looked at as not being a good idea. It removes them from the pool of good targets for the scum to go after (or makes them better recruitment targets, assuming they’re not being protected).
Of course a power role can always claim vanilla, forcing the scum to play WIFOM, but many people feel town lying is too much of a distraction.
Basically, not having the vanillas claim means we know less, but it keeps the scum in the same boat.
You meant it as “I will vote earlier toDay than I did yesterDay”. The way you wrote it, it sounds like you’re planning on zipping back in time to cast a vote.
Well, in context, it looks like Darth Sensitive had his vote on dotchan, so it could stink of extra knowledge, but based on his actual vote post, he didn’t seem particularly confident in any of the leading vote-getters. He specifically mentioned not feeling the NAF wagon, but didn’t state why. Ditto on the OCS one (though, I can at least guess there, since I felt the same way).
So, Darth, can you perhaps provide more explanation on your vote? Why didn’t you feel the NAF vote? What was more convincing about the argument that bufftabby put forth that was lacking in the case against NAF and/or OCS? Did you vote for doctchan thinking she was the scummiest person out there, because she was the scummiest of the vote leaders, or because she was the least townie of the vote leaders?
Ah, carry on then. 
Just in case anyone had any doubts, I can confirm that I got a Vig result on Koldanar. I was a bit confused in that my role description says that I don’t get the former results in any case (so I would expect to get Priest) but looking closer, it seems that this is only if my investigation target was Made that night, not made into a priest.
I’m not necessarily feeling the DS thing right now. I guess when I read that I filled in the unstated “up to this point” in his post. At the time he posted, that day WAS a disaster, so I had some sympathy for that comment. I do want to see his answers to BlaM’s questions, though.
NAF being surprised that he lived through the night did ping me a bit. Scum tend to leave people alive if they’re going to be drawing suspicion, and NAF had been. Again, I’m not sure if this is worth a vote on NAF, but it’s certainly worth a FOS.
Another thing I’m curious about is the mini-wagon on OCS. Can those who voted for OCS in that flurry explain their suspicions a bit better?
pulls up a chair
I think it started with HazelNutCoffee, who accused me late in the day, two days ago, for semi-lurking. Someone else got lynched that night, and she re-accused me the next day (this is yesterday now), on the basis that “Hey, why not?” A few people eagerly joined in.
I’m open for HNC or anyone else to give me a different interperetation, though.
I voted for OneCentStamp initially because he just happened to be one of several people I noticed a) hadn’t been involved in any kind of disagreement or b) hadn’t been voted for. I stuck to this theory for yesterDay’s vote after seeing how everyone put on the chopping block turned out to be a power role (and for the time being I’m going to assume they are telling the truth). CapnPitt’s execution just confirmed what I initially believed - that scum are less likely to make outright scummy statements and more likely to make little slips (**Darth Sensitive’s ** thing about yesterDay being a bad Day for town before the results were posted would fall into this category for me).
Hot-headedness is, IMO, usually a sign of town. Scum tend to be very careful about what they post - townies, on the other hand, seem to be more reckless than not, knowing that they are, in a sense, expendable. Now, I’m not saying that scum will always fit this profile. But scum who play the role of indignant townie run a high risk of being lynched, since - as CapnPitt’s lynch demonstrated - town is not exactly shy about lynching vanilla townies. Plus, in a game like this where the sheer numbers of town versus scum actually work against the town on some level, it’s just easier for scum to hide in plain sight by being as forgettable as possible.
That being said, yesterDay I would have just as happily lynched dotchan as I would have OneCentStamp. Or anyone else on my list, for that matter. ToDay, I’m not so sure.
Re: Mason role claims. I agree with dotchan that sinjin should at least tell us how many Masons there are. Whether the Masons decide to claim or not is up to them, of course. I suppose Masons claiming would narrow the pool of potential scum a bit, but then again a hidden Mason might mean a wasted recruit attempt. I suppose it’s somewhat of a WiFoM situation.
Would someone please define WIFOM for me?
I jumped on the OCS wagon–it was mainly hotheadedness, frustration that I’d started the misguided wagon on Father Hal, and frustration that the whole vote was coming down to the last minute. I didn’t know if I’d have a chance to change it in the morning (which I did, actually), so I wanted to get in another vote, and I didn’t feel like starting another misguided bandwagon. So I jumped on HNC’s. Believe it or not, it was the middle of the night, and that’s all there was to it.
Ditto everyone on wanting the number of Masons.
Glad to see so many voting early and often toDay. That’s how we like it in Chicago.
(Wait–I meant that last line in the least Mafia-ish way possible! I swear!)
I cannot support the remaining masons claiming unless they’re under suspicion. Their best asset is that they can resist a recruitment thus, once out in the open, they are less likely to be recruited. However, they still only have a 50% chance at resisting a recruitment, so even by having them out in the open, it doesn’t mean that we can ever really trust them completely. As more and more recruitables get lynched, the value of an outted mason goes down, because the chance of recruit failure at random will approach, or even surpass, the failure rate of recruiting an outted mason, at which point the scum may decide it is worth the risk and at which point the masons are rendered useless.
However, I again implore the Masons to make their own decision about when to claim based on their own knowledge of who they are and how much they’re being suspected. Obviously, that is information I cannot model in any useful way.
Wine in front of me. From the Princess Bride. Correctly used it means you are making a play assuming the other team will do something just because they think it is what you think they wouldn’t do. (See the iolcane powder sequence from the same movie).
Used incorrectly it just means trying to anticipate what the other player will do. We use it incorrectly most of the time.
The recruitment falir rate is a macguffin. Their best asset in this game is the same as it is in every game, they can confirm each other. IF they do claim it is less likely that any attempt to recruit them will be made, but really this is a good thing. Smaller pool for the scum to hide in.
There is always the chance that one of them has been recruited already, but by keeping them hiden we only increase that chance over the time period where they can accidentally be attempted to be recruited and not fail. A recruited mason is more dangerous than a nonrecruited one is valuable. I would argue that keeping them hidden ups the likleyhood that one WILL get recruited.
Do you oppose Sinjin revealing the amount of masons living?
It stands for Wine in front of me. It comes from the scene in the movie The Princess Bride in which the Man in Black is having the battle of wits with Vizzini. It’s a reference to how Vizzini is analyzing the Man in Black and constantly eliminating either cup of wine based upon the reasoning of why he eliminated the other one previously:
“Only a great fool would reach for the cup he was given, so clearly I cannot choose the cup in front of me. But you would have known I was not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the cup in front of me.”
This is the same sort of reasoning that goes into a lot of arguments in mafia:
“The Boss would obviously want to recruit someone who is experienced, so clearly we must lynch one of them.” “But now the Boss knows that it’s obvious he’d want to recruit someone who is experienced, so clearly we should not lynch one of them.”
In the end, Vizzini was actually right about both, because both cups were poisoned. And that’s exactly the point, WIFOM reasoning is often WAY over thought, and simply ends up being a bunch of circular reasoning that distracts the town because you can never actually reach any sort of viable conclusion.