Drain Bead;
Fine, I’m still confused though. When I initially read the first post ref’d above I thought Koldanar was your investigation on your first night and the missed recruit occurred last night and somehow precluded you from investigating. Now it’s clear you still don’t want to talk about your first investigation.
Underlining mine. 
How does saying you found someone town or scum help scum? Scum already know. I know I’m probably again missing something simple.
sinjin, it’s not that you’re missing something simple, it’s that if I go into it in great detail, it will essentially telegraph info to the scum. Mind you, I’m wondering if they already got it, but hopefully everyone else but me and the person I investigated is as lost as you are. 
If it comes down to either me or that person potentially dying because I haven’t revealed, I’ll come forward. Until then, I just ask that you have faith in my judgment on this one, that there is no good town-helpful reason for me to talk about it at this point. My job is to find the Boss. I haven’t yet.
I’m willing to believe Drain Bead for the moment - I did something similar in the off-board Firefly game believing that withholding information meant I could keep a pro-Town player safe and I could confirm his rolename should he choose to claim.
I’m trying to decide if the Darth Sensitive thing was really a scum tell. It does look suspicious.
[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
If it comes down to either me or that person potentially dying because I haven’t revealed, I’ll come forward. Until then, I just ask that you have faith in my judgment on this one, that there is no good town-helpful reason for me to talk about it at this point. My job is to find the Boss. I haven’t yet.
[/QUOTE]
And how did you know you wouldn’t die last night? I can kind of understand you saying that withholding this information for now is better than revealing it, but I’m not really happy with it.
Darth Sensitive (5): Hal Briston, NAF1138, OneCentStamp, bufftabby, HazelNutCoffee
NAF1138 (2): Blaster Master, Menocchio
Millit the Frail (0): (NAF1138)
No vote yet:
Millit the Frail
Hockey Monkey
USCDiver [sub for Diomedes]
Drain Bead [sub for Idle Thoughts]
MHaye
Santo Rugger
Pleonast
Koldanar
Hawkeyeop
Hotflungwok
Darth Sensitive
dotchan [sub for Freudian Slit after dying on Day 3]
sinjin
The sun sets on Tuesday, March 18th at 11am CST.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
Hot-headedness is, IMO, usually a sign of town. Scum tend to be very careful about what they post - townies, on the other hand, seem to be more reckless than not, knowing that they are, in a sense, expendable. Now, I’m not saying that scum will always fit this profile. But scum who play the role of indignant townie run a high risk of being lynched, since - as CapnPitt’s lynch demonstrated - town is not exactly shy about lynching vanilla townies. Plus, in a game like this where the sheer numbers of town versus scum actually work against the town on some level, it’s just easier for scum to hide in plain sight by being as forgettable as possible.
[/QUOTE]
This is the big mistake I made during my first game. Players made argument that were based on faulty logic. I translated bad logic into scumminess. You made an argument that does not pass the rules of logic, I thought you were trying to mislead the town. What I discovered was that this wasn’t remotely true. Town members were desperate to find scum. Anything could be a potential giveaway, and they were much more likely to make arguments that did not make sense, because they knew they could be right. If they were going to be voted out, they would vote for anyone else, because anyone else was more likely to be scum than they were. Scum didn’t go out a limb. They didn’t make last ditch efforts to stay alive. They knew exactly were they sat, so they could behave more logically than emotionally.
With that mind I’m going to completely about face and
vote Naf
On the offboard game he was desperate to win. He nearly gave things away in the game he was modding in order to have a better chance at winning. He didn’t win that game. Yet somehow now he willing to just accept being lynched without putting up a fight? Where did the desperation go? This seems like a significant change in demeanor.
Some other things that jump out. The godfather lynched day one. This was a risky and illogical play. I don’t think a rookie godfather makes that play, nor do I believe someone who would go by the numbers. It would have to be someone who was confident enough in their abilities to go against the numbers in order to mislead the town. I think Naf could fit that profile.
Naf made a list of possible targets for the godfather. That is a lot effort put into to thinking what he would do in that situation. The person most likely to think about what the godfather would do is the godfather.
I haven’t thought Naf was scum before, so I’m going to reread to see if this new theory jibes with his past actions. There is no point to FOSing here though, so I’ll leave my vote on him, until I have a better lead.
[QUOTE=dotchan]
Really? Why?
[/QUOTE]
Because it’s a piece of information the Masons have that the Mafia doesn’t. It lets the Mafia know what they’re up against for a false claim. It makes it easier to find the Masons from slips (it can be very hard for Masons to treat other Masons as unknowns). In this game, the number without names tells the Mafia how big a prize recruiting the claimed Mason is.
Information is valuable. Townies with additional information have to balance the what the Town as a whole could gain from revelation versus what the Mafia would gain. Sometimes, revealing lets the Town coordinate and become more effective at rooting out scum. Sometime it makes it easier for the scum.
It’s even risky for us to talk about it. Masons could accidentally reveal themselves with their opinions about whether Masons should reveal now or later. It’s safe for me (or any other claimed) to talk, since we all know I’m not a Mason. For everyone else, there’s risk. For example, even if no Mason talked about Masons revealing, the Mafia could look for players avoiding discussing it. We really need to be cautious about discussing pro-Town power roles.
By the way, as long as we trust Drain, we need to trust her decision not to reveal a finding. And if you don’t trust her, you’re not going to believe what she says anyway.
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop]
On the offboard game he was desperate to win. He nearly gave things away in the game he was modding in order to have a better chance at winning. He didn’t win that game. Yet somehow now he willing to just accept being lynched without putting up a fight? Where did the desperation go? This seems like a significant change in demeanor.
[/QUOTE]
I still want to win, I just think that this time around winning means I need to die. If my death lends trust and creedence to my arguments then it was for the best. Unfortunatly now that we have lost the vig the situation changes a little, but I am not sure how. I was hoping that the vig would take care of the folks on the must die list.* These people still need to die, but we have to find the boss first now, which is harder. If you think that is a change in demeanor, you haven’t been paying attention. Unfortunatly, I don’t have a better idea for finding the boss right away than a mass claim. The more people we can get confirmed as “not the boss” right away, the faster we can find the boss, we can then take care of the recruits. I am sorry I didn’t think of it sooner, and I am sorry I am not more persuasive in my arguments, and that I don’t have the math to back me up. But it just seems logical to me that if we can eliminate a large number of players from contention as the boss, we will have an easier time picking the boss out.
If someone has a better idea let me know, but at this point every Day that goes by where we don’t find the boss things get harder for the town.
*That is why I thought I wouldn’t survive the Night, I thought I would get vigged. If I was the vig, the first person I would have taken out would be the person who suggested that an entire group of people should be killed and then put themselves on the kill list.
[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
No vote yet:
Millit the Frail
Hockey Monkey
USCDiver [sub for Diomedes]
Drain Bead [sub for Idle Thoughts]
MHaye
Santo Rugger
Pleonast
Koldanar
Hawkeyeop
Hotflungwok
Darth Sensitive
dotchan [sub for Freudian Slit after dying on Day 3]
sinjin
[/QUOTE]
Let’s see some votes up, people. You can change it later if you need to.
[QUOTE=Menocchio]
Let’s see some votes up, people. You can change it later if you need to.
[/QUOTE]
How bout 3 posts up?
[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Because it’s a piece of information the Masons have that the Mafia doesn’t. It lets the Mafia know what they’re up against for a false claim. It makes it easier to find the Masons from slips (it can be very hard for Masons to treat other Masons as unknowns). In this game, the number without names tells the Mafia how big a prize recruiting the claimed Mason is.
Information is valuable. Townies with additional information have to balance the what the Town as a whole could gain from revelation versus what the Mafia would gain. Sometimes, revealing lets the Town coordinate and become more effective at rooting out scum. Sometime it makes it easier for the scum.
It’s even risky for us to talk about it. Masons could accidentally reveal themselves with their opinions about whether Masons should reveal now or later. It’s safe for me (or any other claimed) to talk, since we all know I’m not a Mason. For everyone else, there’s risk. For example, even if no Mason talked about Masons revealing, the Mafia could look for players avoiding discussing it. We really need to be cautious about discussing pro-Town power roles.
[/QUOTE]
I couldn’t agree more, which is why I keep saying we should leave it up to the Masons. For instance, if someone who is unclaimed keeps saying masons should claim, then either they believe that and aren’t a mason, or they are, are lying about what they think masons should do, and potentially poisoning the well for when they eventually claim. So please, if you haven’t convinced them to come out yet, then you’re not going to. They’ve seen the arguments for both sides and will do what they think is appropriate.
On further reflection, I agree. I’ve come up with at least a couple of scenarios where it is to the town’s advantage for her not to reveal her investigation results or, at the very least, has the appearance of being to the town’s advantage such that I wouldn’t blame her for not revealing. Until we have a reason to doubt her claim, particularly when the decision not to reveal all of her investigations was made on the same Day as her claim, thus not allowing a recruitment opportunity to potentially intervene and alter her motives, we should trust that her motivations behind that decision were pro-town.
Ok, since we now know that there was a Boss kill on Night 1 and not a Vig kill, I went back and re-read the first half of that day (prior to everyone jumping on CapnPitt). There were two players, NAF1138 and Hawkeyeop who were consistently arguing towards a Vig kill as opposed to what we now know is the truth.
In particular this post by NAF:
for some reason comes across to me as trying to dissuade the town from even considering that the Boss might have killed.
So for now I’m going to
vote NAF1138
I’m not sure enough about the Darth Sensitive thing, I thought that day was a disaster even before the lynching result was announced. Odds were we were going to lynch a townie, and I wasn’t holding out much hope. It could be a slip, but I don’t think so.
I voted for him before, and those reasons still stand up. With new information it just reinforces it.
vote NAF1138
[/QUOTE]
Darth Sensitive (5): Hal Briston, NAF1138, OneCentStamp, bufftabby, HazelNutCoffee
NAF1138 (5): Blaster Master, Menocchio, Hawkeyeop, USCDiver [sub for Diomedes], Hotflungwok
Millit the Frail (0): (NAF1138)
No vote yet:
Millit the Frail
Hockey Monkey
Drain Bead [sub for Idle Thoughts]
MHaye
Santo Rugger
Pleonast
Koldanar
Darth Sensitive
dotchan [sub for Freudian Slit after dying on Day 3]
sinjin
The sun sets on Tuesday, March 18th at 11am CST.
Game master note: I will be away from my computer during much of Saturday afternoon and evening. During that time, no vote counts will be posted.
Ok, I will mount only a single defense of myself and then let myself get lynched. I don’t want to become this game’s brewha.
Before I do, would someone mind actually presenting a case for my lynch. I haven’t noticed one. BlaM sorta kinda presented one, and everyone else has more or less said a variation of “I don’t know if he is scum, but he sure talks a lot.”
Once someone has presented a real case against me I will post my defense. I would like to get this over with earlier in the Day rather than later if possible.
Also, for those voting for my lynch, have you asked yourself how I am helping the scum here? For those of you who think that the scum might have recruited me last Night…are you insane? I almost got lynched yesterDay. I will probably be killed very soon, how am I still a good get for the scum?
If you think I am the boss or was a Night 2 recruit, that is different. And I would ask you to please acutally state a case. I will defend myself, and then move on. People can vote for me or not from that point forward.
Ok, I’ll give it a go:
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Also, for those voting for my lynch, have you asked yourself how I am helping the scum here?
[/quote]
See above. On my re-read of Day 2, knowing what we know now (namely there was NOT a Vig kill on Night 1), I am more suspicous of the players who were adamant that it HAD to have been a Vig kill. There was a lot of confusion that day as to what happened. I was merely a spectator that Day, and I’ll admit I assumed it was the Vig, but I was open to the possibility it wasn’t.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
For those of you who think that the scum might have recruited me last Night…are you insane? I almost got lynched yesterDay. I will probably be killed very soon, how am I still a good get for the scum?
[/quote]
Of all the people who were on the chopping block yesterday, you didn’t claim a role. To me that means you are either already scum or you are a Townsperson. If you are a Townsperson then you are a guanteed safe recruit. So while it might not have been a good idea to recruit you because you ‘almost got lynched’ we’ve already seen the Boss do unconventional things by killing on Night 1.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Ok, I will mount only a single defense of myself and then let myself get lynched. I don’t want to become this game’s brewha.
Before I do, would someone mind actually presenting a case for my lynch. I haven’t noticed one. BlaM sorta kinda presented one, and everyone else has more or less said a variation of “I don’t know if he is scum, but he sure talks a lot.”
Once someone has presented a real case against me I will post my defense. I would like to get this over with earlier in the Day rather than later if possible.
Also, for those voting for my lynch, have you asked yourself how I am helping the scum here? For those of you who think that the scum might have recruited me last Night…are you insane? I almost got lynched yesterDay. I will probably be killed very soon, how am I still a good get for the scum?
If you think I am the boss or was a Night 2 recruit, that is different. And I would ask you to please acutally state a case. I will defend myself, and then move on. People can vote for me or not from that point forward.
[/QUOTE]
FTR, I think it’s unlikely that you’re the boss, but your behavior and motivations did seem to change after Night 2 as I stated earlier (I won’t bother to restate my case, since it should be fairly prominent in the public mind).
Also, I don’t understand your reasoning behind thinking you would get Vigged. You indicated that you thought the Vig was hotflungwok, which would imply you would have thought he would have Vigged you. Considering his and my lengthy discussion regarding the Vig, I couldn’t have seen him targetting you, I would have expected him to not target anyone last Night. The expectation of being Vigged looks more to me like a post hoc explanation for your feigned surprise being called out.
That said, I would be interested to hear your explanation for why you would have thought he would have targetted you.
Also, fluiddruid, not to be petty, but you do mean 11AM CDT not CST, right? So, it’s still 1 hour behind EDT?
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
That said, I would be interested to hear your explanation for why you would have thought he would have targetted you.
[/QUOTE]
ahem
[QUOTE=USCDiver]
Of all the people who were on the chopping block yesterday, you didn’t claim a role. To me that means you are either already scum or you are a Townsperson. If you are a Townsperson then you are a guanteed safe recruit. So while it might not have been a good idea to recruit you because you ‘almost got lynched’ we’ve already seen the Boss do unconventional things by killing on Night 1.
[/QUOTE]
As I said, I’m inclined to believe NAF was recruited on Night 2; however, assuming he wasn’t, the fact that he was on the block yesterday, as you mention, does not preclude a recruitment attempt.
In the past, we’ve had someone on the chopping block, seen sufficient defense, and the next Day treated them as pretty much confirmed (see Queuing from M2).
Considering that, unlike previous games, the Boss gets unlimited recruitments, he may also deliberately select someone to deliberately discredit them. Say NAF WAS accurate about some of his analysis or something, a subsequent recruitment, followed by a lynch, would leave us not knowing exactly when he was recruited, and thus unable to trust him, particularly since we’d find it hard to believe the Boss would recruit someone who was in such trouble of being.
Now, all of that said, of course, I just can’t see the Boss doing that, even now knowing that he is the one who killed on Night One, I just can’t see that as a likely move because what he’d be giving up a lot and not really gaining much.
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Say NAF WAS accurate about some of his analysis or something
[/QUOTE]
Ouch. And after I said all those nice things about you!