NAF1138 (6): Blaster Master, Menocchio, Hawkeyeop, USCDiver [sub for Diomedes], Hotflungwok, dotchan [sub for Freudian Slit after dying on Day 3]
Darth Sensitive (4): Hal Briston, (NAF1138), OneCentStamp, bufftabby, HazelNutCoffee
bufftabby (1): NAF1138
Millit the Frail (0): (NAF1138)
No vote yet:
Millit the Frail
Hockey Monkey
Drain Bead [sub for Idle Thoughts]
MHaye
Santo Rugger
Pleonast
Koldanar
Darth Sensitive
sinjin
The sun sets on Tuesday, March 18th at 11am CDT.
Well, I posted why I thought you could be the godfather Naf. I wouldn’t of voted for you if I thought you were recruited.
I’m sorry I wasn’t more explicit enough then. It was a case for your recruitment. Your only rebuttal to the possibility that you were recruited is that it would be stupid to recruit you because you were close to getting lynched the previous Day. My post was meant to explain why I didn’t think it was such a ludicrous proposition. If you weren’t already a scum prior to Night 3, you effectively telegraphed your Townspersonness yesterday as well as putting yourself on a list of people scum would be smart to recruit. Besides the fact that I’m always a little suspicous of list-makers, you opened up a big ole WIFOM by making that list of recruitables.
I like you tabby!
We are often to hard on the new players and when we aren’t we ignore them. On behalf of everyone else who didn’t notice you enough, sorry. I hope my vote will get you some more attention.
Different quote that sounded logical to me. What pinged me was all you did was ask why, then say, ok thanks, when given an answer. That sort of behavior bothers me, especially in a new player.
No question, but I wanted to see what you had to say, because I noticed (after I saw that post) that I only rememberd you from the Night portion of the thread. I am going back now to see what else you have said durring the Days. In the meantime it is good for you to have a vote.
True, and hopefully that will keep the scum from targeting those people. Or will it? Worrying about how the scum will react to lists like that is a true WIFOM argument. WIFOM arguments are by definition bad.
I am playing as transparently as I can, I think this benefits the town. Everything I am thinking is right out there on the table. I might get recruited, sure, but then again I might not. I think that I am now a terrible recruitment choice, but then again, I think it was dumb for the scum to kill Night 1. What do I know.
If all you are going to say it “hey, you could have been recruited” how am I supposed to defend against that? It isn’t a case, it is an accusation. You case is that I am probably vanilla.
NAF’s list was published in post [post=9562493]837[/post]. In it he advocates killing off all these players, himself included. In Day 3, with (as we then thought) 2-3 Mafia, if he himself was Mafia (either the boss or a recruit) to publically call out for his own death would have been a fairly gutsy move.
At that point, NAF had one vote on him; that would be your vote in post 732. So it wasn’t outside the bounds of possibility that this was a gutsy scum play, and I actively entertained the possibility that that was so.
As play progressed, votes began piling up on NAF. What convinced me of his sincerity was that he didn’t try and weasel out of the logic of his list on a flimsy suspicion. In post [post=9565338]979[/post] he urged avoiding no lynch and declared his willingness to self-hammer to avoid a lynch. This could have been posturing, but there were several posts between then and the end of the Day showing that people were not clear on the rules about tied lynch votes. This was the post that was pivotal in my deciding that at that point NAF was sincere.
He was still taking the position that he was expendable less than five minutes from time – see post [post=9565581]1023[/post], when it was still eminently possible for a last minute vote switch from Dotchan to NAF would have tied the vote. At that point, the vote count was Dotchan 7, NAF 5, and Koldanar’s vote would have thrown NAF over the edge.
Those are the basis for my assessment that at the end of Day 3, NAF was on the Town side. Now? Who knows – except NAF and the Mafia of course.
Sorry, I don’t see it. Would you mind reposting?
I’m trying to decide who to vote. I typically don’t have much time to keep up on the weekends, so I want to put a vote out now, rather than Monday.
I’m not seeing the NAF vote. He plays very similar to me–throwing out ideas to see what works best, irrespective of how good they do in fact work. I can’t say I really like any of his ideas this game, but I appreciate his effort. I’ll repeat my Mafia mantra: A difference of opinion does not imply a difference of alignment.
I don’t see anything NAF has done that seems to have a scum motivation, so I won’t vote for him.
Who was it that said they saw a Vig-tell and recommended the Vig out themself? I think it was Blaster. Can you explain yourself about that? It struck me as very suspicious.
Very provisionally:
vote BlasterMaster
That was me…it was part of my “I am going to die soon, I had best get all my thoughts out while I have the chance” diatribe.
I was referring to this post. You did respond to it.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9577304&postcount=1206
Heh. That’s because I didn’t expect him to answer me. I’ve asked him a direct question or made direct comments that were not acknowledged by him.
Oh, and of course all you remember me from is night-posting.
1)Lots of debate between you and BlaM, not so much with other players. You’re both experienced, powerful players, so I’m not surprised. But I can see how those intense discussions could lead to a touch of tunnel vision, especially toward the exclusion of an inexperienced player.
2)My night posts were…pretty memorable. Ahem. Gotta love the “pee in my butt” routine. Well, I do, anyway. Cracks my shit right up.
And I misunderstood/misremembered what you were referring to as logical. My error.
Hehe, that’s what I get for skimming while doing other things. Sorry, Blaster:
unvote BlasterMaster
vote NAF1138
Can you (NAF, apparently) explain why the Vig should’ve claimed because of giving a tell? The worst that could happen is the Vig gets killed. No need to claim unless under lynch-threat.
I disagree. I really think that we needed the vig to make this game winnable for town. If the vig came out and claimed 3 things would have happened.
What do we gain by keeping him hidden?
1)one less confirmed townie
2)the possibility of wasting a large part of the Day bandwagoning him and then having a claim last minute, or WORSE, the possibility of him getting last minute bandwagoned (al la sinjin) and then claiming with even less time on the clock.
3)the slim chance that the mob will try to recruit him and we get a freebee scum name.
Basically everything we gained from toDay’s claim by koldonar plus koldonar would have still been able to kill. He could have said, I plan to off chrisk, and chrisk would have been able to say “hold up now, I am a priest!.” We still have our vig.
Too many people claim priest, we start killing priests.
Clearly I am the only one thinking this way, but no one has yet to propose an alternative to my approach to this game. If we play it as straight mafia we will lose. Frankly, as the bandwagon against me has proven, we just aren’t that good and picking out scum on our own. Confirmed townies will help.
Poor play on the Town’s part, then. And we can start lynching priests whenever we want to.
Well, my general approach is keep lynching until we hit the Boss. Yes, we’re bad at lynching, but I’m not sure how the Vig claiming would help us. I’m not sure why the Vig did claim. Wasn’t the consensus that Priests shouldn’t claim if at all avoidable?
And you didn’t really answer my complaint directly. You’ve given reasons why the Vig should claim, but have neglected to address why a Vig-tell should affect that.
One more thing, NAF. I think you’ve caught the funk that sach had in You-Solve-It and I had in Three-Kingdoms. The only cure is death. 
On reread, we’ll keep lynching after we find the Boss, too. What I meant is we should be going after the Boss, rather than those recruited. Once the Boss is recruited, we’ll basically have to ignore any claims that can’t be confirmed as pro-Town.
Not sure I follow you here, could you elaborate?
2.) True, but as far as I was concerned I was going to die. I didn’t want to wait.
3) We can discuss, but he can’t. That is the big thing, back and forth comnication, not just vague talk and orders.
Again, not sure I follow. Why is this a reason to hold off claiming until the last possilbe moment? It seems to be a reason to claim as early as possible to me.
Well my thesis all along had been that we should have as many people claiming early as possible. Why claim then, because he could.
True, but do we want to wait that long? I appreciate this end of the argument, but frankly I think we need outted townies more than we need the name of a single scum. The name of one scum gets us one scum, many confirmed townies will potentially get us all the scum. Again, see the pirates game.
Fair enough on the first bit. The vig claim helps because it is one less person to mistrust. He is 100% verifyable town. We know not to lynch him. And frankly I think we need all the help we can get.
Really, I don’t think that having a vig tell was a reason he should claim. I mentioned the vig tell because I noticed it when I thought he was recruitable and figured I should before I died. My feeling was that either I was right, and the mob would be afraid to go for him becuase other people had spotted him as the vig too, or I was wrong and it didn’t matter.
When I found out I was wrong about the vig being recruitable, that is when I changed my position to vig should claim.
Could be you are right.
Just want to take this moment to say…metagaming…from you? Dot, you hurt me. Sheesh. (and you clearly haven’t played with me enough, this is basically me in every game, scum and town.)
ok, so in about 40 minutes I will be gone for the weekend. I am going to not post for that period of time and will try to do a really serious re read, because my notes are chicken scratch at this point.
When I come back I will not post anything in defense of myself. Or answer questions about why I did anything prior to my posts on Monday. I’m a townie. If we still had a vig I would recomend vigging my ass, but we don’t, so lynching might be the best option. But either lynch me or trust me.
If you don’t like my argument present a freakin counter argument. (In fairness to BlaM he has done this, so has Pleo, and drain) But disagreeing with someone doesn’t make them scum. Don’t fall into that trap. I don’t know what the scum gain by anything I have done, other than distracting the town. Look for what the scum gains.
It was never my intention to distract the town, when you lynch me I say take a good look at the people who were aiding in the distraction. Let’s get back on track. Even if you have a vote for me, who is your number 2? Don’t change your vote, but pretend you get a second one. If you plan to vote for me, place your vote, then assume that I am dead and make a case for your number 2.
I don’t like that Darth hasn’t really done much posting since called out on his potential slip. I would be happy with a lynch of Darth.
Based on the fact the the scum didn’t kill Night 1 I think that the boss is a new player. I would be ok with killing bufftabby also.
Millit hasn’t talked near enough for my taste. I would be ok with killing Millit.
I have voted for all three toDay for a reason. I think one of them is likely the boss. I will spend the weekend trying to prove it.
I completely agree with this statement. I also think, in a pure metagamey sense, that those who are the most outspoken at least started out as town. I say this in every game, because I’m an outspoken townie and ALWAYS end up getting lynched for it. But the game isn’t as fun for me if I don’t pretty much think out loud, and I think in the end it helps town for everyone to do that. Lurking also draws negative attention, although it’s rare that the pure lurker gets lynched in the early game.
So I’m thinking what we’re looking for here is a new(er) player or one who has never been scum, who has appeared to be helpful but hasn’t really said much of substance when it comes down to it–the definition of flying under the radar. I thought I found it in Koldanar, but I was wrong. I need to re-read the thread and see if I can figure out who it might be.
I haven’t followed every game on the Dope, and I don’t have the spare brain cells to remember the cast of characters on the ones I did read. Who in this game has never been scum before? I know it’s meta, but it might help me narrow stuff down upon re-read.
Obviously, I’m holding off on a vote. I’m not feeling the NAF thing. He and I disagree on a lot of game strategery, but in the end I agree with mhaye and his analysis that as of yesterDay, NAF was town. Our major priority here is finding the Boss. We can deal with recruits later.
I see where we’re disagreeing, NAF. By “early claim”, I mean claim early in the Day that a player comes under reasonable threat of lynch. I think you’re using it as early in the game. And you’ve answered my question by saying you hadn’t realized the Vig wasn’t recruitable. So,
unvote NAF1138