I guess I should disclaim, should any players accidentally wander into this thread again, that I have no way of knowing Chronos’ alignment. That’s just a hypothetical response a hypothetical scum Dante G could make when Chronos is lynched and hypothetically revealed as town.
Usually, I make a poorly-elaborated-upon hypothetical like that in-game, which leads to fun lynches!
I know it has been a while since playing on this board, but come on! Lynching Chronos because you disagree with his ideas? That’s so 2007!
(1) Chronos’s ideas have merit
(2) Even if they didn’t have merit, presenting them is neither anti-Town nor pro-Scum
In truth I haven’t had to say it in a long time, but I find it funny to have to repeat it about veteran players (rather than the new ones). Disagreeing about a tactic isn’t a good reason to vote for someone. The entire notion that Chronos is scum trying to get Town to enact a strategy that is damaging to Town is ridiculous. Chronos can’t MAKE anyone do anything, and the idea that Town will blindly follow anyone is equally ridiculous.
The votes on Chronos are poorly reasoned.
I’m mostly suspicious of JSexton and septimus, because I feel they should know the votes on Chronos are BS.
I gotta say, their crazy scheme seems in favor of town. However, if I was a wolf, I’d be pushing hard for us to go along with this plan while secretly hoping Storyteller would amend the rules. I’d get massive townie cred for going along with a plan that would mean certain doom for my team, and I’m out nothing much if Storyteller doesn’t change the rules, since I’m no worse off than I was before. Plus, I’d console myself with the fact that it’s still going to be an uphill challenge herding the cats into following along.
I had the same thought.
The wolves need to either find logical holes or support it and hope suspicious townies fuck it all up. I’d be real suspicious of the “It could work but darn it, that’s not mafia!” people. It is mafia in this game.
I’m not sure I understand the downstream idea underlying Chronos’ plan. If they follow it, on Day One they will identify the Alpha, yes; they are also nearly certain to lose a Town player, as the Alpha - knowing (s)he will be caught anyway - will simply switch his or her vote at the last second to kill whoever (s)he wants. Night One they will lose another Townie. Day Two they will lynch the Alpha. Day Three they will (ostensibly) try the same approach, and identify another Wolf, again at the cost of a Townie, and so on.
Assuming they follow this rigidly, as far as I can tell it leads to a Town loss, since they are allowing the Wolves to control every other lynch starting with the first. Eventually the will run out of Masons to direct the process and they’ll have literally no other information with which to work.
There is quite a bit of ‘what if’ that could occur with the proposed plan (and all the variants).
Chronos’s original plan was simply aimed at establishing a pool of ‘not-alphas’ to enhance the power of the Seer.
The Variants are targeted at rooting out actual Wolves. Predicting what will occur is near impossible since there are so many sub-cases, but storyteller, you are correct, if town trades 1:1, they will lose since the trades would be in town-wolf-town-wolf order.
However, that doesn’t account for the Doc or Seer. A failed nightfall and/or a Wolf investigation would swing the win to Town.
Furthermore, as I understand it, they could stop after ID’ing the alpha wolf as a Town-Alpha trade is a net gain for Town (supposedly).
There is also the lack of coordination between wolves. If Town were to enact the change, which wolf is going to ‘last minute vote’ to mess with the ties? If the Alpha, then alpha is exposed, which is exactly what Town wanted. If NOT the alpha, then who? There is the risk of multiple wolves outing themselves at once. on Day Two, they will be OK since they can talk at night. But on this first day, they have to fly blind. The ideal would be to have somewolf other than the alpha game the end of day. But coordinating that would be difficult for the wolves on the first day.
It is all very interesting to me, and I’m impressed with the thinking. I also agree that this is something to be removed so that the game can proceed ‘normally.’ (And I love this kind of stuff)
Oh. And there is also the messy aspect of timing the end of day. If the wolf is too late, then the ties are preserved. If the wolf is too early, townies monitoring the game as well can switch to vote for the switcher. One minute is a long time. I don’t know if the board has the capability of displaying to the second, but really, if it comes down to that, then the game isn’t going to be fun anyway. Do we really want a game that is determined by mad eBay sniping skills? If I were in such a game, I would monitor the end of day if I could, but I wouldn’t like it. I personally like to eliminate real-time features in mafia games. Many players simply can’t be online during end of day.
I predict this will be filed under “interesting, but not worth pursuing”
Well, your point raises another issue with the proposed plan: it depends on players being equally and continuously active in a game that, because you are executing the plan, becomes essentially rote and dull. What do you do when a given player simply misses his or her assignment from the Mason, because he or she is not present for the Day in question? It happens all the time. Do you then lynch the player in question as a likely Wolf? No? Then what’s to stop the “real” Wolves from doing the same to screw up your planning?
It’s a cool plan, but one not likely to survive the actual real-world playing of the game, which is why I’m not worried about changing the rule. And, without spoiling anything, I’m pretty sure the course of the discussion has helped the Wolves quite a bit.
I’m so glad I’m not playing, but the post-mortem for this game is gonna be hella interesting.
I’m obviously going to have to change the rule. I’m sad about it. But there are too many players who are clearly not having fun with the game, and too many outright thinking about quitting, for things to remain as they are.
I think that really sucks and I hope that if you do decide to change it, you keep it on reserve and bring it back some time. I’d really like to see how it plays out.
Not knowing everything going on behind the scenes, perhaps it would have been better to keep the actual process a secret but inform them that there’s a tiebreaker mechanism? The discussion was so interesting though. I am enjoying the players tussling with the various scenarios.
Dang, I have missed playing mafia. I have been looking in the wrong forum and not finding any games, doh! And nothing is going on the idle mafia boards.
This pings me quite a bit. It’s a valid day one vote, but it’s got too much of a “oh darn this sure is hard for us townies!” feel to it. It also picks two players in no danger of getting lynched, so it’s just a throwaway vote at this point. Then he exhorts others to come up with more theories.
I’d vote for this.
I’m getting a strong Day 1 town read on septimus for this post here. I like his questioning and his response seems natural.
By the way, I’m digging kinda-sorta armchair playing from the safety of the forbidden thread. I’ll never have to answer for my gut feelings and total misreads later! I wonder if you could structure a game around two groups playing the game, but the first group handles lynching and is playing traditional mafia, and the second group has its own elimination, and could somehow influence the first group?
I’m just catching up now after several days of not reading. I am very glad that the tie-break was changed - that’s exactly the kind of game I don’t like playing in. And I certainly wouldn’t have bothered reading along.
JSexton is still pinging me as Scum, even though I agree with most of his posts.
Biotop seems like a baller.
When does the Day end? I took a quick glance at the thread but couldn’t find it.
Also, I like Biotop’s play too.
I think the Day ends at Noon.
Did a quick skim catch up. TexCat is definitely reading like a frustrated Townie to me. I would be surprised if she turns up Scum. Plumpudding’s attacks have been highly aggressive and, at a quick glance, a bit…I can’t think of the right word: he seems overly focused, like his mind is made up and he’s amplifying everything that agrees with his case and ignoring everything that doesn’t. That said, I’m not necessarily getting a Scum read from him; he could be a Townie dog with a bone. I’ve seen/done that before.
I think we’ve all been there before 
Wow! What a crazy finish!?
I had to skim to get to EOD before the deadline. Looks like the results aren’t up yet.
(1) The case on septimus made no sense to me.
(2) Plump outright dismissed septimus relying on knowing Chronos’s game style as a valid reason. Are you kidding me?! It’s the BEST reason. What blows me away is that none of the experienced players intervened and explained that septimus was correct to use knowledge about Chronos and that it is totally relevent.
(3) Super late claim! I don’t know how I feel about that. I was expecting a vanilla to swing, but then the late claim. Why the hell didn’t Septimus claim earlier. Perhaps EOD on Monday morning isn’t such a good time, but Septimus is in Asia, so he could have at least claimed in the dead of Sunday USA time.
(4) The newbies are acting as I would expect them to (in retrospect). They glom onto what they think is scum behavior, but don’t have the experience yet to recognize that scum behavior is way more subtle. That was common in early games.
I still think JSexton is scum.
Plumppudding isn’t looking too hot to me, but I can’t reconcile new from scum.
Dante G is playing way too weird for an experienced player. I don’t know his board’s modus operandi, but here, he looks super scummy.
I’m shocked that septimus got lynched, but I shouldn’t be. There were way too many last minute votes flying around. With the weekend (in summer) I think Monday EOD will be unfortunately influenced by real-time factors. In my opinion the ideal is for lynch to be decided before EOD and not in a last minute scramble. If town lynched a townie septimus with last minute votes, they just hurt themselves really badly. One for killing town, and two for setting up the last minute voters for scrutiny and possible lynch. They are going to have to unpack that end of day, which is going to be a mess.
Oh. I also think Prof. Periwinkle is scum, but I don’t recall why.