No Sauruman/Grima :mad: (but then again, no wizard-ka-bob)
(will be on extended DVD tho)
3:12 (3:20 w/ credits) running time. (Tho I as I read it this could change)
Still not done. I read the new done-by-date is Nov 14 (was Nov 1).
I’m guessing the duplicators will be working overtime. (or, as Harry says, the prints may arrive at theatres still wet)
Brian
Interesting decision by Jackson. I wonder if audiences really will assume that Saruman was vanquished by the ents?
And I think the ‘3.12’ time was a typo, since I’ve been hearing 3 1/2 hours is essentially the final running time.
link didn’t respond, but why is No Saruman bad? After all it implies that it is possible that the Scouring actually occured, if you assume Saruman wasn’t killed by the Ents.
Until final duplication is in process, I will accept no time as “final”
Brian
Ever notice that news by Harry is just as much news about Harry too?
I sure hope this isn’t true.
I’m OK with most of the movies changes, but leaving such a major issue unresolved until the second version of the DVD reeks of sloppy storytelling, cynical marketing or a combination of both.
When last we saw Saruman he was still a malevolent wizard, safely ensconced in a seemingly impenetrable tower, with – as far as we know – the ability to cast dnagerous spells over great distances. He’s been the major onscreen villain, other than a piece of jewelry and a flaming eyeball. So now everyone’s supposed to forget about him to shorten the running time by a few minutes?
– story spoiler –
Without “the Saruman sequence,” I wonder how Pippin ends up with the palantir? If he doesn’t, there’s no reason for Gandalf to take Pippin to Gondor, leaving Merry alone in Rohan… Maybe their scenes are cut, too. Oh, that would be super.
While I understand the pacing idea, I still feel like many of the books’ “heart” scenes and lines are being cut, and not, as Jackson claims, because of pacing issues. Because they are being replaced by “heart” stuff that’s sort of… drecky and cliched.
So many very crucial lines are missing: like the cloak of many colors exchange in book 1 that is really one of the greatest bits of dialouge in the books, and would have made a videogame tussle into a real dramatic scene between Gandalf and Saruman. The exchange at Isengard is no less important: not only for the Palantir, but to get a sense of what Gandalf’s new color REALLY means.
I’m going to remain a skeptic until I see how they pull off the ending with Frodo going away. does he return to the Shire and try to live before realizing that he cannot find rest there anymore? That’s another huge part of the heart of the story.
Well, I’ve been willing to put up with Jackson’s changes to date, I understand the reasons for most of them, and there’s not going to be a “better” film version in my lifetime. I wouldn’t have made some of the choices he did, but I wasn’t asked.
Assuming this rumor is true, I think it is a logical consequence of leaving the Saruman/Gandalf confrontation out of THE TWO TOWERS. I wondered, after seeing TWO TOWERS, how in the world they would pack everything into RETURN OF THE KING that they need to. So, it’s disappointing, but not inconsistent.
I think we need to recognize that the theatrical versions are abridged, and that the extended DVD is the “real” movie.
On the cloak of many colors: Yes, I thought that was a wonderful bit and was sorry to see it gone, but I understand why. In the book, JRR can say that the cloak looked white, until Gandalf got close and saw it was many-colored. The reader can vaguely imagine such a thing. But a film has to actually show something as having a different colored-look from different angles, and I can’t conceive how they would pull that off without looking cheesy.
I don’t know how Pippin will get the palantir, of course, of whether he will. But after FELLOWSHIP, when they didn’t get the weapons from barrow-wight, I wondered how Merry will stab the Nazgul without the elder-blade? As I say, I’m happy enough with the overall that I’m willing to wait and see without grumping about it.
On Frodo: again, we’ll have to see. Peter Jackson obviously loves the books, he’s making changes that are necessary for a movie (being different from a book.) Once the ring is destroyed and Sauron defeated, you’ve got about five to seven minutes of audience attention. That’s just not enough time to crown Aragorn, find the white tree, journey back to the Shire, scour the Shire, live in angst for several years, have Sam marry Rosie, and have the cast take off for the West. We may deplore that audiences are so conditioned – the movie ends with the defeat of the villain. Period. Anything after that (other than the romantic kiss, or riding off into the sunset, or whatever) is anticlimactic and (by definition) boring. That’s the expectation, and we’re stuck with it.
A nude scene of Arwin at the very end would’ve ensured the audience stayed thru anything the director put in after the Ring is destroyed. Now, how hard was that to figure out?
God only knows how they explain the characters getting hold of a palantir without dealing with Saruman, but apparently Pippin does indeed end up with the palantir; there’s a scene in the trailer where Merry tells Pip, “Don’t you understand? The Enemy thinks you have the Ring!” which would only be possible if Pippin looked into the palantir.
Here is a pic of Aragorn supposedly holding the palantir, so apparently the sequence of Aragorn using the palantir to challenge Sauron is also in the movie. The trailer also includes a line from Aragorn: “He has gone unchallenged long enough” which would seem to support this.
As you might expect, there’s an on-line petition if you’d like to object:
You’d be surprised. In about fourth grade, I managed to pull this off with crayons on paper. From five or six feet away, it looked white, but as you got closer, it got shimmery colory (I wish I had saved that drawing!). I’m certain that Jackson’s special effects wizards could have done it well.
And John Mace, throw in Eowyn as well, and you’ve got yourself a deal.
hmm, read that report, it seems kind of daft to be honest, all of a sudden we’re supposed to just forget about Grima and Saruman, I mean even in the most simplistic way, why couldnt they use this footage as a flashback when discussing Pippin and the Palantir? Its weird but oh well, I believe PJ is doing the right thing over all, in fairness, hes gotten it right so far!
Sorry if this has been dealt with a other threads, or if I’m getting things mixed up from the book, but what about Aragorn’s sword?
In the book, if I remember correctly, he carries the broken hilt with him wherever he goes, until it is remade (by whom?- sorry, bit hazy on this point)
In the first film howevre, we see the sword kept at Rivendale, so I guess the logical thing would be for Elrond to re-make it, and for Arwin to take it to Aragorn, but I dunno if that will be the case, and maybe P.J decided to cut out that thread of the story altogether. Anybody know what the deal is?
He doesnt carry it in the film its still in Rivendell
And I read somewhere that Arwen reforges it in in secret, or has it done for him and persuades her father to give it to him, dont know any more after that
He’ll definitely carry Anduril, which is Narsil reforged. PJ built an entire scene around Aragorn and the shards of Narsil in Fellowship, and there’s no way he’d leave something like that unresolved… oh, wait…
Perhaps I was the only one still hoping that the Saruman news was a hoax, but since Christopher Lee has been speaking about it publicly and a notice has appeared on his Web site, http://www.christopherleeweb.com, that looks less and less likely.
I guess it doesn’t cheer me up to think I’m spending $10 and waiting in line to see an extended trailer for an extended DVD. The theatrical film should stand on its own merits.
It’s a nice bit of symbolism but not important to the plot at all, so I didn’t miss it a bit.
In the film, I don’t think anything’s been said about the Witch-King being invulnerable, so there wouldn’t seem to be a need for a special weapon.
I’m not so sure some version of the Scouring couldn’t and shouldn’t have been included, but it’s not part of the story Jackson chose to tell, and I’m OK with that.
On the other hand, Jackson chose not only to tell the story of Saruman treason, but to emphasize it, e.g., having Saruman battle Gandalf in Orthanc, drive the Fellowship into Moria to face the Balrog, and spiritually possess Theoden. Leaving Saruman in Orthanc with his powers apparently in tact is a serious problem in terms of the film story, putting aside all questions of faithfulness to the book. Mind you, there could be ways to resolve this problem without the entire Voice of Saruman scene, but the information seems to indicate that the subject won’t be addressed. If that’s true, it’s bad storytelling.
This omission won’t ruin the film by any stretch. I’ll be there on opening day and I’m sure I’ll be entertained and moved. Jackson has done a great job bringing this story to the screen – but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done better.