Manhattan, A Moment Please?

The BBQ Pit
1

[quote]
originally posted by Zenster in GQ
Many of my business partners are, or have been, fundamentalist Christians. When I ride with them I have the opportunity to listen to typical on-air Christian music programming. Some questions, please:

Why is it impossible for the stations to play an instrumental piece?
However pivotal Jesus or God is in their life, is that the only topic worthy of thought or consideration?
What is so repulsive about any other form of music like jazz, blues or world beat?

I will freely confess that these questions are, for me, rhetorical. My answers;

So many fundamentalists I have met reached their religion through desperation. Either self abuse through drugs or bad relationships seemed to drive them to their faith. As Dennis Miller says, “Nobody ever finds Jesus on prom night.”

I can only say that the strident and too often insistent tenor of the lyrics in Christian music are indicative of great insecurity. Quite the opposite of the message that they contain. In services that I have attended, there is a pervasive motif of constant self-reassurance and reinforcement, more akin to brain washing techniques than any sort of artistic expression.

The complete absence of instrumental pieces, or even instrumental passages further supports my own sense of the fragility of faith that must exist for people who require such constant reaffirmation of what should be a given.

The total void of foreign language lyrics or different musical styles also strengthens my perception that fundamentalists are pandering to a narrow market of mindsets. Whatever happened to the all-inclusive nature of religion?

What has become of some of the most beautiful passages ever written in the name of God? J.S. Bach’s instrumental work, all of which he dedicated to his creator, is so moving in its artistry that I am often inspired to consider the tennets of his faith as well. How is it that these magnificent works are incapable of transmitting the less complex message contained in the repetitive content of modern Christian music broadcast media?

I know that there is also Christian “rock” music but that too suffers from the strident nature mentioned above. Why is it that gospel, which centers heavily upon blues and semi-jazz formats seems to be so unacceptable to fundamentalists? How is it they are seemingly unable to acquire any inspiration from these styles as well?

Anyway, I welcome the input of everyone here, religious or not, about this odd facet of modern fundamentalist religious music.

[quote]

Originally posted by Zenster
Many of my business partners are, or have been, fundamentalist Christians. When I ride with them I have the opportunity to listen to typical on-air Christian music programming. Some questions, please:

…

I will freely confess that these questions are, for me, rhetorical.

Manhattam,

As much as it is your prerogative to close whichever threads you wish, I am a bit amazed by your actions. The questions may have been rhetorical to me, but the answers that I was receiving from PLDennison and Rastahomie were very cogent and enlightening. I take exception that you would accuse me of spewing “anti-Christian bigotry”. If I was an anti-Christian bigot why on this green earth would I elect to have them as business partners?

The observations that I made in my OP are derived from direct interaction and experience with fundamentalist Christians in their homes and churches. I have a respect for all faiths and feel as though my questions are valid. I base that validity upon the fact that the nicest Christians that I have ever met have always been so secure in their faith where they feel no need to continually “witness” or attempt to convert those around them.

The “strident” and “insistent” overtones that I have encountered in so many fundamentalist services seem to positively reek of insecurity. It saddens me to think that people would have such an infirm foundation for what should be so concrete. If you construe my musings as bigoted pit-worthy material, so be it. I’ll open this up here for all to critique.

2

I haven’t read the original thread this is about (don’t know which one it is), but, as a Christian, I don’t feel that Zenster’s questions were “anti-Christian” at all. Granted, I’m only reading what he posted as a quote, but I’m not offended.

Actually, I think they are good questions and have a right to be answered.

Just my $.02.

3

Thank you very much for your reply BunnyGirl. As a composer and musician who prefers content in my lyrics, I nonetheless write many instrumental songs as well. Some of my instrumental pieces convey my sense of beauty far better than many of my lyrical songs.

The original posting ocurred in this thread.

4

Just an observation:

Posting non-GQs in GQ pisses Manny right off.
Stating in the OP that you understand that this is what you are doing really pisses him off.

“Rhetorical questions” do not belong in GQ, because there are no answers for them. You were asking for opinions.

I also think his comments were a bit over the line, but I understand why he felt that way.

5

Did you try another forum yet? Probably should.
They just did an explanation in ATMB that it slows down the board more to move threads than close them, so that’s probably the main incentive here, not how religious the question was. It could have a good run on MPSIMS, IMHO, or GD, if phrased correctly.

(And I do agree there’s not enough intrumental music on all formats, not just Christian. Well, except for sports-talk stations. :wink: )

6

Thanks Biz, I’ll give it a try over in IMHO.

7

FWIW, I was happy to reply with information I hoped was helpful, but I also felt a tad uncomfortable answering it, trying to dance around the “rhetorical” portion. I don’t even necessarily disagree with your premises, but I think it makes a difference what forum questions like that are asked in.

8

Well, FWIW, Zen, your whole OP struck me as a Pit rant, and I scrolled down to tell you that there was already a “Christian rock sucks!” thread in the Pit, only to find that Manny had locked the thread not 10 minutes earlier.

So. [shrug]

P.S. I do resent you categorizing “fundamentalists” like that, but I’m not interested enough to go to the mattresses about it. I’ve been known to categorize myself quite cheerfully as a Fightin’ Fundie, and I don’t recognize myself in your rather narrow-minded description. God’s teeth, son, if the music bugs you so much, can’t you get them to change it? Or put it on classical music–you say nice things about Bach, but are you ready to put your money where your mouth is and listen to public radio on the way to work? Why don’t you ask these guys? Try being upfront with them–tell them that, to you, being forced to listen to Christian music amounts to being proselytized, and you object. I don’t know the particular Fundies that you know, but the ones I know wouldn’t dream of cramming either their music or their Gospel down anybody’s throat.

I agree that Christian rock sucks, which is why I listen to classical music on the car radio (my children hate me).

9

“Anti-Christian bigotry” may have been a tad strong a phrase, but not much.

Some quotes from your thread:

I mean, seriously. Would you post a thread bemoaning the dearth of foreigh language lyrics or different musical styles on a hard-rock station, asking “Whatever happened to the all-inclusive nature of youth?”

If you’re so damn sure you already know the answer, don’t post it in GQ. Especially if “the answer” is a matter of human choices. Is it really that difficult to figure out?

10

Hey there DDG, I wasn’t trying to “categorize” fundamentalist Christians in any way, merely share what I have seen too often to ignore.

A past partner was decent enough to put on the classical music, although I had to spend many hours listening to C&W (which I typically loathe), so go figure.

My current partner is totally oblivious to what I think about either the music or the content. I asked him some of the same questions as in the OP and he really did not have any clear answers.

I like that you make your children listen to classical music. I loved it as a child and will always listen to it. Please do not think of me as narrow minded, what I have written about are direct experiences. I have always made it a practice to go to church with any of my religious friends so that I may experience all facets of their lives.

I have no desire to tar all Christians with the brush that wrote the OP. I am just very concerned, specifically about the philosophical fragility of so many fundamentalists that I am exposed to. I have watched a minister preach outright intolerance for other religions and take umbrage at me pointing out later how the precise religions he railed against recognized the validity of Christianity.

11

A hard rock radio station is intentionally trying to reach a narrow segment of the available listeners. Christianity, by it’s very definition, is supposed to be an all-embracing experience. I find it conspicuous that the scope of the broadcasting I have heard is tailored to a rather select group as opposed to the multitudes that their own saviour sought to redeem.

Manny, I will apologize for having posted an “asked and answered” OP in the GQ forum. If you look at my posting profile, you will see that I am almost exclusively a MPSIMS denizen. Recently, I have been making forays out into the other forums. I have no fun treading on the toes of others with my mistakes, but would also appreciate a little generosity when it comes to accusations of “bigotry”.

12

manhattan, Christian radio stations banned a famous singer because in his CD, he sang in a foreign language. The singer was Pope John paul II.

13

Lemme guess… you’ve never met a Southern Baptist.

14

You act as if this is the first time you’ve ever discussed a subject like this. It seems that when you involve yourself in a discussion about religion (and i realize its not that often, as most of your posts are more about culinary topics) you go out of your way to criticize Christianity. Its all good if you want to voice your criticisms about Christianity, but don’t act so surprised when someone calls you anti-Christian.

To quote from this thread:

‘Anti-Christian bigotry’ was too harsh a reaction, but let’s not pretend that you don’t have a bias against Christianity.

15

I’d like a cite for that, please.

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I don’t believe it, but if it did happen, it probably because he’s the Whore of Babylon, not be cause he sang in italian.

jb

17

Maybe he sang it in Polish?

18

Christian evangelism is no more strident than any other ideologically-driven movement. If you believe in something passionately, that passion will be expressed. Christians believe that they are in a war of good against evil, of light against the darkness. Why shouldn’t they be strident?

This is an asinine criticism. Contemporary Christian music (CCM) is a faith-based alternative to what the Christians see is music laden with pro-sex, pro-drug, and pro-violence messages. Would you criticise an alternative rock station for not playing instrumental passages? Sheesh!

Regarding artistic criticisms of CCM, well, there is a lot of mediocre CCM, but there is also a lot of mediocre regular music. There are also outstanding Christian bands like Jars of Clay and Sixpence None The Richer.

Now, could all of y’all find non-religion-based threads, please. This is the umpteenth time I’ve defended Christians, and I don’t even like them! I hate to see even people I dislike misrepresented. If you’re going to bash Christians, bash them for sensible reasons.

19

Perhaps the problem is here:
While “Christianity” the all encompassing lable for a whole host of religions, may have as a basic tenant of their faith the concept of witnessing and/or attempts at converting the masses, I seriously doubt that the aim of the “Christian radio stations” is anything other than the attempt to reach a narrow segment of available listeners - that is, their aim and purpose is not to convert the masses, but to give expression to, cater to, those who already believe.

So, you are not their prime audience, and good thing, too. But they’ve apparently reached their objective by getting your business partner in.

FTR, while you may have intended to get GQ type answers, I’ve seen several threads before in GQ that were better suited to debates etc. (the election threads for example…)

20

I can’t link for you (I found it on LEXIS-NEXIS) but the May 5, 1999 edition of the Los Angeles Times reports that KIEV, a station owned by Salem Communications, a Christian broadcast group, intiated a policy that “there would be no more music in foreign languages.” According to a DJ who was not a KIEV employee but bought time on the station to air his weekly show, soon after he began playing Abba Pater, the Pope’s album, the engineer cut it off and the station went to dead air.

To be fair, the article does not contain a confirmation or denial that the station’s policy was to not play foreign music (that allegation was made by the DJ) and the station claims that the DJ used an obscenity and that’s why he was cut off, which he denies. He has hired attorneys and filed a lawsuit.

This is the only incidence I can find.