Bullshit. Officers discuss military policy all the time. I already referenced General Pace. More importantly, I didn’t say he would need to do so publicly. He could accomplish the same thing in private.
Obviously he wouldn’t use the exact words I quoted. But as you admit, he’s perfectly able to discuss the effects of the policy.
You didn’t say publicly, and I did not mean to imply that you did. My point is that saying that the military brass needs to stand up and oppose “don’t ask, don’t tell” is a dicey proposition. The American people, through their elected representatives, have decided that this is the proper policy for the military. The Chiefs have a duty to report to the Secretary of Defense their analysis of whether “don’t ask, don’t tell” is harming military preparedness and operations. But if the Secretary tells them to shut up and enforce it, they need to fall in line.
Absolutely. My contention is that public opinion is overwhelmingly in favor of open service and that it is the opinions of military leadership that are holding it back. And if they offered their opinion on the effects honestly, not based on personal biases, we’d see changed in short order.
Why is this a hard concept with some liberals? Joining the military versus working in fast food. I was wasting my time and my parents money in college. I was playing video games in a video parlor (early 80’s) instead of studying. In walks this Marine staff sergeant and waits for me to finish my game of Tempest. He was impressive, he had a certain confidence that just was obvious.
He talked me into going to the recruiting station the next morning and we talked about my options. Since I had a few weed charges he was honest and said all I could get was the infantry most likely. Actually that was cool with me, I know bullshit fairly well and he seemed like a genuine guy.
There were no major wars at the time I was in (83-87) I don’t regret serving at all, in fact I’m glad I did. It gave my slacker self a sense of purpose and some dignity. Also it gave me the motivation to go to tech school and get a two year degree in electronics.
When I was job hunting one of the interviewers was looking at my resume and said " this is a big plus" he was referring to my military experience. The president of the company was a former Marine.
Sure enough, I got a call later in the week and said I was hired. That was eighteen years ago, still with the same company. My point is that the military is not a dead end job. Yes you are potentially risking your life but the rewards can outweigh the risks, hell sometimes we all take risks.
They were bullies enough to tackle one guy as he was trying to enter and throw him to the ground. Did you take the time to watch the video that Liberal linked to in post #22? For the record, I haven’t been in a fight in my adult life. I’ve never had cause to. But then, I’ve never had a bunch of assholes try to prevent me from getting into my place of business by throwing me to the ground.
Wrong.
Like I said, some of us can deplore both. We’ve had dozens of anti-war threads and many of us have participated in them. When someone takes the time document deplorable tactics used by the other side, I will deplore those, too.
And who, exactly, is being an asshole here?
Usually, a guy that insults me before I insult him.
Personally, I prefer the direct insults to the indirect ones.
Well, sure, John, all us straight up guys are like that. Some of us are more touchy than others, of course.
But this “thrown to the ground” thing your on about? Are we talking about the same video? About 57 seconds in, the guy with the hood on falls down and the other guy falls on top of him? How do you throw somebody to the ground so that they land on top of you? With a hood on.
Does that make a lot of sense to you?
The “Don’t Tell.” part also applies to third parties telling the CoC another soldier is gay. We recently had a guy in our division get a rainbow chit dropped on him and he and the guy who tattled went away. Jackasses who sap good personnel from undermanned divisions in an effort to stroke their homophobia are also bad for morale.
Oddly, that’s very encouraging, 1010011010. (Mind if I call you “10”?) How prevalant is your (healthy) attitude?
Nope. He doesn’t fall on top of him. So, first you distort the action by saying it was like touch football, then you distort the footage by saying, well, maybe there was a tackle, but the guy fell on the hooded protester (which he didn’t). Frankly, I think it’s time we stop letting you derail this thread with misrepresentations of the facts and protestations that your fragile sensibilities have been hurt (in the Pit, of all places). And since you’ve admitted to trolling in this thread, I for one am going to stop feeding you. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
Actually I’m not entirely sure elected officials shouldn’t be punished in some way for trying to interfere with U.S. military recruitment efforts. Citizens have a right to protest and make their voice heard, but local podunk politicians should have no authority to take actions that are directly harmful to the U.S. military.
Federal military priorities should trump municipal politicians, although I’m sure the law as it is now doesn’t agree with me.
Society doesn’t work without bullet sponges, moron.
You would certainly have a legal argument based on the supremacy clause if the city had taken concrete actions to impede recruitment. Just as Maryland can’t tax the national bank, Berkeley can’t pass laws to impede the recruitment of marines.
But here they didn’t pass any laws. They just expressed their sentiments publicly, and gave Code Pink a parking spot.
Dio seems like a rational and fun person in CS but get him in GB or the BP. Wow man, what tripped your circuit?
I’ve argued before that if the protests go so far as to actually impede recruitment, it constitutes sedition. Plus the elected officials in question could be considered part of a seditious conspiracy - they have waived protest fees for Code Pink and, as has been mentioned, the cops just stand by and let this stuff happen.
Heh. Sedition, eh? Under which statute?
U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, § 2388.
Activities affecting armed forces during war
(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or
Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a).
[/QUOTE]
Bolding mine, obviously.
That isn’t sedition. The sedition sections of that statute–now widely believed to be unconstitutional–are Sections 2384 and 2385.
But more importantly, the statute you cite is not currently in effect because we are not in a declared war. This is why the statute hasn’t been used to prosecute anyone since WWII.
Harold Koh, The Spirit of the Laws, 43 Harv. Int’l L. J. 23, 25 (2002).
Koh is speaking in that section of the pre-Iraq AUMF, but he has said it applies equally to the current AUMF. Even if Koh’s reasoning is wrong (and I’d say Koh is as expert as you’ll find), if you tried to apply that statute today it would likely be found unconstitutional under our modern First Amendment jurisprudence.
Yes, he does. 57 seconds in. And its nothing remotely like being “thrown to the ground.” Your claims of violence are hogwash. The cite given speaks only of singing and strumming. Now, I’ve heard Berkely protest singing and strumming, and its not as bad as waterboarding. But violence? It is not. There are no cites of injuries, arrests, or anything of the sort. (That I’ve seen: you got 'em, bring).
Well, then if I’m distorting, you can surely show proof of all this violence. And my analogy to touch football was sarcastic, which I’m pretty sure you knew, since you are no more a snark virgin than I am. As for the video, anybody who cares enough can go look, see who’s “distorting”.
Cheese Louise, John the guy stomps in an spits in my eye out of the clear blue, haven’t said word one to him! I ain’t delicate, but in my book that rates a stinging rejoinder. You would too if you could borrow one!
And you know I did no such thing! Distortion? Borther, your mind is a funhouse mirror! If you are determined to see these people as violent crazies, go ahead, ain’t nothing wrong iwith it except it just ain’t so.