Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread

Did. There is nothing really new in the statement except the “exposed firearm” in the end. All the other stuff came out in dribs and drabs over time already. Tell me what you find “glaringly wrong” with it.

What do you think is glaringly wrong with it? And by “glaringly” I mean “contradicted by some known evidence”.

Regards,
Shodan

As I stated earlier, the Prosecution, by proxy, must be planning on using Z’s father’s slightly altered version of events. Considering the short distance from Z’s vehicle, only 35 yards, either Martin hid, or returned to where the incident occurred. There couldn’t have been any chasing. In my limited understanding of the law, any ambiguity has to be in favor of the accused.

Well there are several issues with the recording compared to the 911 call but that is to be expected. As an example he says he did not follow Trayvon, that he was looking for a street sign. That does directly contradict the 911 call.

As expected there are lots little parts that seem inconstant. If it went down as Zimmerman claims in the police interview he shouldn’t have been south between the buildings on that back yard sidewalk he should have been in the “cut”.

Note I am not claiming these issues prove anything.

It is hearsay, and inadmissible, AFAIU. Especially when there is detailed Zimmerman’s testimony, in black and white, and on video as well.

I agree.

Basically, if anyone expected something in Z’s interrogation records that wasn’t out before and would help the prosecution, they’re disappointed. All hopes are on text messages :slight_smile:

Four big problems with his statement:

  • While Z was on the phone, Martin supposedly “fled” to a darkened area of the sidewalk and then reemerged and started circling his car. * Zimmerman never reported any of this to the dispatcher. The dispatcher specifically asked Zimmerman to tell him if Martin did anything odd or suspicious…so there is no reason in the world why Z would have neglected to mention all of these details if they in fact happened.*

-Zimmerman supposedly got out his car to check a street sign. We know this is false because we hear him exiting the car on the 911 call to chase down Martin. Just as I suspected, Zimmerman never admits or acknowledges that he pursued Martin; this lie is evidence of guilty consciousness.

  • Zimmerman says he told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign so the cops could meet him at his present location. Another falsehood. He actively avoided telling the dispatcher his current location, and in fact requested that the cops phone him when they got there so he could then direct them to him.

  • Zimmerman claims Martin had covered his mouth to stop his breathing immediately before the gun went off. This means Zimmerman could not have been the person yelling for help on the 911 call. And if Martin was yelling for help, that means “tonight you’re gonna die” is a lie (as if we didn’t know that already).

The surveillance video from the clubhouse was a bust. DD’s claim that Trayvon was out of the rain inside the small mailbox building is rather dubious. If Trayvon was there, and Zimmerman was driving directly to the gate from his place, Zimmerman would never have seen him, since he wouldn’t have driven past that area. If Zimmerman was actually going shopping

Zimmerman, in his statement, says that as the dispatcher was asking him about his exact location, Martin emerged and circled his car.

Here is the relevant 911 transcript portion:

Dispatcher: OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman: That’s the clubhouse.
D: He’s near the clubhouse now?
Z: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

So - as the dispatcher is asking him about the location, Zimmerman says Martin emerged and came toward his car. He didn’t mention the “circling” - did he absolutely have to? And no, at that time the dispatcher didn’t yet specifically ask Zimmerman to tell him if Martin did anything odd. That came later:

D: Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Really? Evidence of guilty consciousness? Are you a psychoanalyst now?

Zimmerman in his statement says that the dispatcher asked him which direction Martin ran away to, and Zimmerman got out to check that - that is, the direction in which Martin ran. That would mean he followed him.

D: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Z: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood.
D: OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Z: The back entrance.

No, Zimmerman didn’t say that “he was looking for a street sign so the cops could meet him at his present location”. You made that up. On 911 call dispatcher does ask him his exact address and Zimmerman says he doesn’t know. At that point it is quite likely he looked around for a street sign so he could tell the dispatcher that. I don’t see any “active avoidance” of telling the dispatcher his current location - he didn’t know the address and he told that to him. It’s exactly two lines - how you read “active avoidance” into that I have no idea:

D: Alright, what address are you parked in front of?
Z: Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address.

You’re assuming that Martin kept his hand on Zimmerman’s mouth the whole time before the shot. That is not what Zimmerman wrote.

In prior incidents Zimmerman appears to be confused about exact locations, nor does he like giving out his address. Essentially he isn’t acting much different that prior incidents of strangers in the development. Only this time, the stranger didn’t run away from the area.

There’s something else that is wrong with his statement, and it truly makes one realize how much the devil is in the details.

Zimmerman claimed he pulled out his gun and shot Martin not because the kid was slamming his head in the sidewalk. Rather, it was supposedly because Martin told him " you’re gonna die tonite". In other words, it was a verbal threat that supposedly provoked Z to kill M, not the physical violence itself. See here:

The problem with this is that the prosecution has direct evidence that this verbal threat did not occur. Because Z’s statement excludes Z as the source of the yelling, that only leaves Martin. And at no point in time do we hear that voice saying anything other than help or other vocalizations of distress. We do not hear threats of violence against Zimmerman on that tape.

The reason I think this might be a big deal is because his justification for killing the kid is directly contradicted by other evidence. This evidence has long been known to the Sanford PD as well, so it makes sense that Lee got fired. Zimmerman should have been arrested the moment the PD had access to all those 911 calls and put 2 and 2 together. Which is exactly what Serino did.

No, Z’s statement does not exclude Z as the source of the yelling. He says that at one point Martin put his hand on his mouth to stop him from breathing. He doesn’t say how long the hand was there.

What other evidence?

He never told the dispatcher that Martin “fled” and then reemerged. Forget about the circling. It’s clear on the call that Zimmerman never loses sight of the kid until *after *we hear him get out of the car.

Who are you fooling? This is what his statement said:

He never told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign. If anything, he did the opposite by evading the dispatcher’s request for directions.

Sustained yelling lasted for close to 30 or 40 seconds prior to the gun went off. It never sounded muffled or from a person with a compromised breathing. This is strong evidence that it was not Zimmerman.

I don’t know whom you’re trying to fool, really. It’s not like those 911 calls are hard to find and listen to.

There were multiple gaps between yells. Including in the few seconds before the shot.

That quote does not say he told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign. It says that he told the dispatcher he didn’t know where he was (which is what the 911 transcript shows). It also says that he was out of the vehicle looking for a street sign and the direction the suspect went.

None of that screaming sounds like it comes from someone who is being suffocated by a 158- lbs teenager perched on their chest, but thanks for playing.

Because you’re an expert on what screaming sounds like when someone is sitting on your chest, I am sure. Thanks for playing.

No you’re clearly going overboard with parsing his statement to suit your agenda.

“I told the dispatcher I did not know but I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign and the direction the suspect went.”

The “but” in there says it all. In the sentence right before this one, he pointed out that he didn’t know what street he was on. In this sentence, he was relaying that he informed the dispatcher of this and that he was looking for a street sign.

Stop trying so hard to make the man’s statement look less problematic than it is.

Here’s an interesting part: in the Serino interrogation of Zimmerman, Serino tries all kinds of things to bluff Zimmerman into saying something wrong: he lies to him about a possible video of the encounter, and lies to him about there being a witness to Zimmerman’s trying to detain Martin. Zimmerman replies to him that he hopes there was a video of the encounter, and denies Serino’s “facts”.

Yes, he informed the dispatcher that he didn’t know what street he was. He also says he was looking for a street sign. He never said he told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign.

Here’s another odd detail:

Zimmerman supposedly got of his truck to look for street sign well before the end of the 911 call. So why doesn’t he ever tell the dispatcher what street he was on? There was another 1 or 2 minutes left in that phone conversation before he hung up. Are really supposed to believe he wasn’t ever able to ascertain his location in that period of time?

Surely, if Zimmerman was truely looking for a street name to give to the dispatcher, he would have managed to produce this information within 2 minutes. Especially since he should have known it anyway, as there were only 3 streets in the neighborhood, he lived right around the corner, and he regularly patrolled the neighborhood.

Why didn’t we ever hear him say “Wait, I’m looking for a sign to tell you, buddy. Just wait one second.” He never says this at all. In that relatively lengthy period between Martin running off and the end of the call, Zimmerman at no point tells the dispatcher that he’s on a search to find a street sign. Quite odd, if that’s why he had gotten out of his car in the first place.

And again, how is it that he ended up behind the houses on Twin Trees? There would not have been any street signs back there. The way his statement reads, the attack should have occurred on the road where his truck was parked. Not within yards of Martin’s destination.

All of this WTFness is why his butt was arrested.