The judge has agreed not to release Zimmerman’s records at this time, until they can be reviewed and only the parts relating to the case be made public.
It would have worked, too - if it weren’t for you meddling kids!
Regards,
Shodan
If it could be proven that it was Trayvon screaming for help then of course I would change my views- tremendously. Frankly, it would boggle/blow my mind. That’s how implausible that scenario seems to me based on the evidence as I know it.
But that’s entirely hypothetical. It would be easier for us to simply look at a different SYG case altogether (than to use my imagination to turn the GZ/TM encounter into an altogether different case.
The trouble is that you are speculating without evidence. Based on the actual evidence, Martin is the one who turned around and walked back to the T. A SYG defense would have been more favorable to Martin than Zimmerman. It would be more plausible to speculate that the reason than Martin didn’t return to Green’s house was because he thought SYG would protect him. He would probably been right, if he had killed Zimmerman. Beyond a reasonable doubt cuts both ways.
OK, I can’t let this go unchallenged.
Apart from Zimmerman’s account, can you briefly bullet point (ha!) the evidence that you believe shows Martin is the one that turned around? I apologize for asking something that has been undoubtedly provided sixty zillion times, but would you mind a sixty-zillion and first?
That’s utterly ridiculous. Regardless of anything Martin did or didn’t do, there’s no effing way he was considering SYG laws just in case he to go kill a guy with his bag of Skittles.
::shaking my head and exiting the thread::
Bricker, I ask you again, sued for what? Where was the threat from Martin that suggested retreat? At what point prior to the confrontation did Martin pose a threat to Zimmerman?
You asked: "Should the law really remove a duty to retreat Isn’t a human life worth more to us than the right to not back down, even if you were acting legally in the first place?
where is the backing down part in this case?
where is the value of human life when it becomes necessary to defend it absent an obvious threat?
Zimmerman’s phone call to the police described Martin and mentioned that Martin had a hand near his waist. I take that to mean that Zimmerman thought Martin possessed a weapon.
He described him as messed up, not armed.
What was the reason for mentioning Martin’s waist?
what was the reason for saying he looked messed up? that’s self explanatory.
what do you think he’s going to say when asked at trial?
Who I am is reduced from my experiences. Here’s a message board that monthly hosts racist assertions against black people (e.g. “Black people are dumb”, “Black people have inferior genes”). I maneuver through an Internet - whether it be news or gaming - where racist comments are made toward black people. To think that views and actions such as these exist in a vacuum inside the Internet or espoused by an very small minority is asking me not only to play dumb but to deny my own personal experiences. If that makes me a racist, then, well, so be it, but I won’t deny reality as I perceive it because it doesn’t jive with your idea of racial harmony.
Yes, it must seem contradictory to you. Here’s another contradiction that just occurred to me, although I can’t take responsibility for it: most of my white friends all have at least a bachelor’s degree. Scary, huh?
DeeDee’s testimony, specifically her statement that Trayvon shouted “Get off me” during the altercation. This is why I think (1) Zimmerman attempted to restrain Trayvon (2) Trayvon defended himself and (3) Zimmerman shot him. I think DeeDee’s testimony deserves significant weight because she was on the phone when the altercation started and she has no bias toward Zimmerman in her statement. She simply is stating the facts as she recalls them.
In contrast, Zimmerman’s account has too many extraneous embellishments: popping out of the bushes, the comic book dialogue (“You got a problem”/You got me!"), and confusion whether Trayvon was skipping, running, half-skipping, or some combination thereof. It comes down to judging the character of a person. Given his medical history, his previous run-in with the law, and him getting on television to plead his case to the public like he’s Rod Blagojevich, makes me think he is lying. In the interview with Sean Hannity, he admitted that he was not afraid of Trayvon.
If Zimmerman had showed compassion by calling an ambulance, compressing a wound, shouting for help (Odd how the screams for help stopped after Trayvon was dead, eh?), rather than let Trayvon’s body lay bleeding out into the grass. If Zimmerman had the conviction to apologize to the family for their loss (before it was convenient). If Zimmerman didn’t go on national TV and claim it was God’s plan. If Zimmerman did one or more of these things, I would be more apt to believe him, but the way he has behaved is indicative of someone who gives shit about human life except their own.
That’s unbelievably stupid and, yes, I am gonna blame him for being on high alert. You know, I’ve noticed that when there’s a story about a boy or girl getting kidnapped and/or molested, that 9/10 it’s gonna be white male’s picture plastered on the screen. Should I start tackling white males to the ground when and if they cross 500 feet from an elementary school?
Far as I’m concerned, this is the United States of America, the idea of profiling someone because they are wearing an accessory designed to protect against inclement weather is stupid. It was raining. If I had hooded jacket (or “hoodie”) and it was raining, I’d pull it over my head as well. Wouldn’t you?
- Honesty
Zimmerman lost sight of Martin after he apparently fled south down the “T”. During the remainder of Zimmerman’s phone call alone, Trayvon could have/would have been safely inside his house (or in another neighborhood altogether).
But Zimmerman’s keychain/ (and attached mini-flashlight) were found near the top of the “T” and multiple ear-witnesses report hearing the altercation beginning at the top of the “T” and moving southward. In other words, the evidence suggests that the altercation began, right where Zimmerman said it did, at the top of the “T”.
What in the hell was Trayvon doing at the top of the “T”? Two possibilities, he was hiding at the top of the “T” or he doubled back. What clearly didn’t happen was Zimmerman chasing him.
Another piece of evidence is that Dee Dee said that Trayvon said that he was by his house. Some interpret that to mean that he was right by his house.
Why do you reject the Martin-was-hiding hypothesis?
A lot of the things you just said could just as easily have been said by a person that many people, yourself included, would call a racist. Let me paraphrase:
“To think that views and actions such as [what I’ve often observed by black people] exist in a vacuum inside [the crime section of the news] or espoused by a very small minority accounts is asking me to not only play dumb but to deny my own personal experiences. If that makes me a racist, then, well, so be it, but I won’t deny reality as I perceive it because it doesn’t jive with [others] idea of racial harmony”.
Personally I don’t see what you said- in itself- to be racism. I see both paragraphs as generalizations based on what one has observed and personally experienced. There’s nothing wrong with those things. People can’t help but do this. But I think you’d consider the second paragraph to be racism.
The important thing, I think, is to try not to completely leap to conclusions based only on things that one has identified as reliably correlating with other things. One shouldn’t oversimplify the relationship between two variables. People should try to give others the benefit of the doubt- and assume good faith. Even when you suspect they are not.
I think it’s important to note that Zimmerman never explained his suspicions in terms of physical traits. He never mentioned TM’s race or his clothing unless he was asked. He described his suspicions based entirely on behavioral and circumstantial factors. As huge a deal that everyone else- including some of his supporters- has made about the significance of his race and clothing, the irony is that there is no evidence that it was important to Zimmerman at all.
I’m not saying that they weren’t factors, but he not once ever described it in those terms. Personally, they would have been factors in the equation for me, given the descriptions of the previous suspects in the burglaries. If there were a rash of child molestations in your neighborhood and most or all of the suspects were described as being older white guys, and you saw an older white guy that you didn’t recognize, acting in a way that struck you as odd, and who happened to be walking near a playground? Yeah, it would be appropriate for those things to be factors in the equation. Not enough- in themselves- to be suspicious. But along with other things that struck you as odd, sure. (But you’d call the police, observe them, but not “tackle them”.)
I think it’s clear that Zimmerman thought some of TM’s behaviors were suspicious. Even if his race and hoodie were a factor for Zimmerman (and there is no indication they were), there were many other factors that caused him to be suspicious.
I don’t. That is one of the two possibilities.
[ol]
[li]The physical evidence says the fight started at the top of the T.[/li][li]It seems implausible that Zimmerman would walk past Martin and neither would say anything that the NEN operator would overhear.[/li][li]That implies that Martin was somewhere south of the T.[/li][li]That implies some doubling back was involved.[/li][/ol]
I don’t insist he went all the to Brandy Green’s house. We only have some rather ambiguous hearsay from Dede to support that. I think he stopped on some porch and was talking to Dede and then came back.
I see what you’re trying to do. This reminds me of what Charles Blow answer to Bill Maher’s question, “Is denial of racism, the new racism?” He responded by explaining that when blacks talk about racism we are “met with people saying ‘What are you identifying as racism has no basis in race and the fact you’re seeing it means you seeing at the world through a racial prism’. That’s a very dangerous position for us to be in because we can no longer talk about the subject without everyone pointing fingers at everyone else”. I think he’s right, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
- Honesty
You’re basing your opinion on electronic glurge instead if the real world. How much time do you spend reading the same bullshit from groups like the New Black Panthers?
This is not 1950. Governors aren’t standing in front of schools and union workers aren’t chasing black people away from jobs.
In her testimony she said that she heard those words “a little bit”. She repeated this statement. If Martin was wearing a blue tooth headset then she would have heard him loud and clear if not louder because he would have yelled it. It’s more likely that she heard Zimmerman say this in the background.
If you’re going to assassinate his character then you have to look at Martin in the same light. He was a thieving, graffiti painting, pot smoking scholastic problem child who called himself “ No_Limit_Nigga”. It’s logical to assume that Martin would have been insulted by the question Zimmerman asked him and doubly so given a similar world view of white people that you hold.
If Martin had shown compassion none of this would have happened and he’d still be alive. He was the one beating Zimmerman, not the other way around. Compassion is not something a person usually assigns to his attacker.
Zimmerman owes no apology or condolences for defending himself. It’s not like Martin was caught in the crossfire.