Actually yes. As silly as it seems, and unlikely to always work in the real world, that is the appropriate thing to do. The goods news is, with the circulation of communication and ease of use, his (already in his possession) cell phone was the only thing he should have been doing with his hands. Hang up on your girlfriend, call the police and go home(or vice versa).
What ‘situation’ was it? A situation you created by confronting someone with malicious intent? I’d assume violence > diplomacy in that case then.
Martin resisting suggests that Zimmerman had the upper hand - do we have evidence of this?
Yes it is about control, controlling your fate and based on what we know, that’s what it seems Zimmerman did.
You shoot yourself in the foot here with this.
You’re right, certain people command authority or presence. They intimidate without having to do anything.
This however, doesn’t apply when you’re in a physical battle in which clearly, the intimidation wasn’t strong enough to avoid a physical confrontation.
If Martin didn’t respect Zimmerman’s ‘imagined’ authority, that doesn’t really matter as Martin was the one whom created a physical confrontation.
Evidence, evidence, evidence.
dimmy derko claimed that, for anyone with experience in fighting, “this fight doesn’t pass the smell test”. This is incorrect - far from being unlikely as he claimed, it is quite common.
There is no evidence of this. Following someone does not justify being attacked.
And here we take the next step from speculation into fantasy.
There is no evidence of Zimmerman acting towards Martin in any way that could be described as a “powerplay”. Nor is there any evidence that Zimmerman expected to be attacked. If he had expected this, his gun would probably not be tucked away in its holster.
And the notion that, when Zimmerman headed for the grocery store, he knew already that he would spot a stranger in the neighborhood, that he would follow and then lose that stranger, that the stranger would then double back and attack him, and so Zimmerman needed his gun, is a good bit more than ridiculous. First you thought he was a vigilante. Now you think he is a fucking psychic.
Or a ground-and-pound, as seems to have happened here.
Which is pretty much what happened here, and how the fight would have played out if Zimmerman had not been armed. Hence the lack of injury to Martin (apart from the mark on his knuckle), and the much more extensive injuries to Zimmerman’s face and head.
How do you think someone gets close enough to shank you or sucker-punch you, if not by lulling you into a sense of false security?
For all TM knew, after being in the area only a week, Z could have been the local rep for the Zetas and was pissed that TM was on his turf.
“What are you doing round here?” isn’t exactly the most reassuring opening comment coming from someone who has followed you towards a darkened walkway.
No, it isn’t. I could show you a lengthy sequence of what happens when someone really sucker-punches somebody, all recorded on cctv in a Russian or East European nightclub. You wont see the puncher following his victim to the ground once. You’d also see he doesn’t give his victim a warning of his impending assault from 10ft away.
What you want us to believe is that TM was confident enough to lie in wait for a man not much shorter than him, and far more stocky, and not only plan on taking him down, but give him fair warning it was about to happen.
Are you saying black teens who wear hoodies have no right to stand their ground against strangers who follow them after dark? What was TM meant to do until the day he was deemed responsible enough to defend his life with a gun?
“He should have phoned the police,” I keep hearing, but by the time you’ve given out your predicament, the shit could already be hitting the fan. Unless Z makes his intentions clear from the outset, there is no good reason for TM not to suspect Z of maybe wanting to cause him harm, whether it be as a result of mistaken id or some other more sinister reasoning.
The same vibe? That this is a race issue, even though white kids in hoodies hanging around suspiciously would also be targeted as ..well.. suspicious?
Ok, so we’ll never raise any question or concern about anything, because we’re too worried that we may unjustly offend someone’s sensitivities over stereotypes.
Yay for political correctness.
I’m fine with racial profiling, or any profiling of any nature. The key is in the person doing the profiling. A wise an experienced (officer for example), will know the difference between when it’s right to just recon/surveillance, or to actually take action. Going around man-handling everyone because you simply can, is not being a good police man.
It’s a big responsibility to bestow upon authority figures and it takes a lot of trust from the community to give this them power, but that is what we do. We have provided them a level of authority and entrust in them to act on it responsibly.
If you’re worried that too often they do not, then maybe they as an individual or their training was not efficient enough.
Ironically, speaking of political correctness - we should stop hiring people based on skin color so we can meet some status quo.
Zimmerman may not be a police officer, however general attitude and understanding of community awareness/protocol is rooted in the same foundation.
In most cases, the Martin Zimmerman situation would have amounted to nothing more than a fist fight. Worse part about it? Some kid got a scare, even though he was innocent.
Best part about it? Nothing irrevocable happened, no casualties and it may have prevented a furthering crime.
It’s just unfortunate that this incident resulted in a death.
Please provide evidence that Zimmerman lulled Martin into a false sense of security, or that Martin so lulled Zimmerman.
So you think that is why Martin doubled back from the relative safety of his father’s girlfriend’s house and attacked Zimmerman - because he was afraid that the fat white guy might be a gangsta?
Even if there were any evidence that he did think that - there isn’t, Martin makes no mention of anything like this to Dee Dee - it does not give Martin the right to proactively attack people.
Yes, the same vibe. The one suggesting that a black teen out after dark and wearing a hoody is deemed a potential threat to social order, without having seen them commit a single offence, and that it’s perfectly ok to play amateur detective and tail them across the neighbourhood, while bringing the police out on what would have been a wasted journey if TM hadn’t finally lost his nerve and ran.
Even if that were the case, doesn’t change any of the evidence, and it certainly doesn’t give Martin any legal grounds to physically assault anyone.
You do realize, the more you talk about this wounded warrior of ethnic persecution, you’re making it look like Martin was also thinking the same thing and subsequently concluded : ‘who is he to challenge me, on my turf, I’m going to go show old man what’s up!’ which then resulted in the confrontation.
You ever also consider that ol George would have done the same regardless of Martin’s color?
As I’m claiming neither sucker-punched anyone, I have no such evidence to provide. I’m saying that not creating a sense of alarm is key to landing one.
He wasn’t a fat white guy, he was the kind of person who you wouldn’t be surprised to see on Cali Cartel Most Wanted poster. And even at 17, it’s possible to be aware that looks are deceiving.
Makes no mention of what? All the possibilities that might be rushing through his mind? I’m sure if he’d known how crucial his last call would turn out to be, he’d have been a lot more chatty.
Yes, it is. Your notion that it never happens that way is evidence that you don’t know nearly as much about real street fights as you claim.
I’m not sure if I asked this of you, or betenoire39, or both, but I would appreciate it if you could refrain from making things up and attributing them to me. I realize it must be difficult for you to keep track of when you are spewing nonsense about the evidence, and when you are spewing nonsense about what other people post, but do make the effort. The idea that Martin gave fair warning of his intention to attack is a figment of your imagination.
So is practically everything else you have posted, but baby steps first.
Certainly. If Z had spotted a shady looking white guy smoking a cigarette at the side of his mate Frank’s house, he’d be equally as suspicious if he saw a white guy walking past there a couple of weeks later.
I’m not saying it NEVER happens that way. I’m saying that most street fights don’t go to the ground as a result of deliberate action by one or the other fighter, and they are far more likely to stumble or trip to end on the ground, with no real skill or technique shown by either fighter. When someone takes it there deliberately on the street, they usally know what they are doing.
I’d have to see these infamous mma fights of TM’s before I’d believe he was capable of taking a 190lb man down at will, after giving him a minor smack on the nose and not dropping him instantly. And Z doesn’t even say he was sucker-punched and rushed, so I’m not quite sure where you are going with this insistence of yours.
You claimed that, for anyone with experience in fighting, the scenario where Martin sucker punched him, rushed him, knocked him down and ground-and-pounded him, did not “pass the smell test” - IOW, that it was highly unlikely.
I am a person with rather extensive experience in fighting. And the scenario of the fight, as Zimmerman describes it, is not highly unlikely, it is rather common. Thus I can draw two conclusions -
[list=A][li]When it comes to fighting, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and [/li][li]when it comes to anything else, I better not assume you know what the hell you are talking about there either, especially without evidence.[/list][/li]Regards,
Shodan
Yes, but maybe Trayvon was a considerate guy and not the type to overly alarm his gf, based on minimal evidence.
Unlike Z, who had TM down as a likely burglar/Goon from the moment he walked on the estate and wasted not a moment in calling the NEN, and giving Trayvon an escort across the neighbourhood..
You’re not as rational as you think you are. Or as informed about fighting outside regulated environments.