That’s my basic take on the matter as well. And I fully expect Zimmerman to walk. And I think that’s a travesty.
The prosecution has to prove that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense. The defense does not have to prove that he was.
The prosecution can show that the evidence to date does not prove that Zimmerman received his injuries at the hands of Martin. That does not mean that Zimmerman is guilty. The default is still that he is innocent.
Regards,
Shodan
Agree, sadly. Yes, the man was scuffed up. Every third murder mystery has the perpetrator putting a hurt on themselves to make it look like there was a struggle, and that’s where my gut is in this case. A preponderance of the evidence says that Zimmerman provoked this whole thing and then freaked out and shot the kid when things got hinky. Unfortunately, there’s probably going to be reasonable doubt.
Of course, this entire thread is utterly premature. When this thing goes to trial, it’s likely we will hear things not even publicly alluded to yet.
It will be fun getting a jury for this thing.
Now there is a fantastic scenario. Is there any indication whatsoever that Zimmerman is a trigger happy lunatic? Has he ever threatened anyone with his weapon before? In fact, has he ever fired it in anger? Or even brandished it?
I mean seriously, you’re claiming here that Zimmerman cold-bloodedly murdered Martin, who was not any danger to him whatsoever. Don’t you think there should be some fact, somewhere, that you’re basing it on other than fantasy?
Wow, seriously? You think Zimmerman broke his own nose, blackened his own eyes, and lacerated his own head - all in about 15 seconds from the time the shot sounded to the time police arrived?
Seriously, the anti-Zimmerman contingent is getting crazier and crazier.
Why do you think so? You know that by Florida law, prosecution is required to disclose all evidence they have to public, except for phone records. And they have.
So, it’s okay to posit that Trayvon decided to become a murderous thug out of a clear blue sky on that day in Feb, but it can’t be suggested that Z finally snapped under the pressure of these assholes always getting away?
We’ve also got to accept that the guy who added an extra bullet to his gun so there’d be no delay to firing it if he ever needed to, then forgot he was carrying his trusty weapon, allowing the bad guy he’d been keeping an eye on to get the drop on him, and after getting beaten almost into unconsciousness by a crazed teenager who told him in no uncertain terms he was going to die, he then calmly fires one shot into the heart.
You think there was only 15 seconds between the gunshot and the police turning up? What are you basing that assessment on?
W13 says there was at least a minute between the gunshot and the moment he walked around the corner and saw Z walking along the footpath, and who when approached, his first question of W13 is “Am I bleeding?”
If you’d just had your nose broken and your face was 45% covered in blood, isn’t it likely you’d be able to taste it, and therefore not need to ask? Or maybe he was just very concerned about how convincing his head scratches looked and he asked W13 to take a snap so he could see how good a job he’d done? Desperate times create desperate measures.
No. But it’s okay to posit that Trayvon was beating up George. Based on the evidence of him being in top and Zimmerman’s injuries.
Normal practice for owners of this particular kind of weapon.
On facts. “John” (witness)'s statement: "No lie, at least 20 seconds later [after the shot], the cops were there”.
It goes deeper than that.
Zimmerman comes up with the next big reality show - Law and Order: Stupid Victims Unit. He looks around until he comes up with the perfect star - a young, innocent-looking dolt with ambitions for show business. In a series of clandestine meetings, they lay out all the details - how Martin will lurk around the subdivision, then Zimmerman will confront him, they struggle, and Zimmerman fires - and misses. Then Martin subdues him, goes on trial, and is triumphantly acquitted. Then they push the script for a major Hollywood blockbuster.
But there’s a catch. The innocent, young, up-and-coming starlet Dee Dee has fallen in love - not with the charismatic Martin, but with Zimmerman, whose pudgy thighs haunt her dreams. So she plans a double-cross. Martin and Zimmerman plans to put a blank into the chamber of Zimmerman’s gun. But when Martin and Zimmerman are discussing distribution deals, she sneaks in and puts a live round into the weapon. Then, she waits.
The fatal night arrives. Zimmerman calls 911 to report a suspicious character. He pulls along to the pre-arranged scene. But Martin isn’t there. He’s forgotten his lines, and heads back to his condo to find his cue cards.
Finally, he returns, and he and Zimmerman stage their little fight (which is as obviously faked as professional wrestling). But the fatal shot is not.
Zimmerman is stunned. He frisks the fallen Martin, looking for his copy of the script for inspiration on something to improvise. He sees nothing.
In desperation, he turns to the only person he knows can help him - Dee Dee, who is there dressed in drag, and intends to take the first pictures on the scene that they can sell to the National Enquirer for millions. It is she who whacks him on the back of the head, with her purse. It is she who punches him in the face, being sure to use Martin’s hand.
Then, her work done, she fades away into the dark. And all seems to be well.
But then, Dee Dee hears Zimmerman, and what he said to his wife, and knows that he means to betray her love. Bitter and scorned, she changes her whole story, trying to blame everything (to the extent her rather limited intelligence allows) on Zimmerman, who she now despises.
That’s the bombshell the prosecution has in store. Dee Dee is going to testify to the whole thing, but make it look like it was a murder scheme all along.
She hopes to parlay this all into a lucrative gig as a judge on Celebrity Kickboxing.
Regards,
Shodan
That you think you can tell who was winning a fight based on somebody else’s description of a 10 second section of a struggle says all we need to know about your judgement on this topic. Being “on top” is no guaranteed indication of who was the aggressor in a fight you haven’t seen the entirety of.
Is it normal practice for them to forget they are carrying it until the kind of person it’s supposed to protect them from gives them a helpful reminder?
Which witness is “John”? W13 says a minute went by, which would be plenty of time for Z to scrape his head with his gun barrel and give himself a smack in the nose.
Page 40/183pdf (Zimmerman Discovery)
Event Report #2012571656
7:11:12 Start George Call
7:15:23 End George Call
Event Report #2012571669
7:16:43 Connection Time W11
**7:17:20 Gunshot
**Event Report #2012571671
**7:17:40 Tim Smith arrives on scene
**7:19:43 Tim Smith locates and places George in custody
Do you have any evidence George scraped his head with the gun barrel? The gun was tested for DNA but there was no report of any found on the barrel.
Hmmm… interesting. That would seem to suggest that Tim Smith arrived before W13, the guy he fails to mention in his incident report. I wonder what that is all about?
Do we know if they even tested the barrel? And even if they, did, unless he’d conveniently left a bit of skin hanging there, would there be any surprise at his own dna being found on his gun?
Hang on a minute… 7:19:43 is the actual time Officer Smith gets to Z’s location, so that’s over 2 mins 20 secs after the gunshot. Which is about the same estimate W13 gave for the arrival of the first cop.
Not to my knowledge and no such indications are necessary.
I haven’t posted nearly as much as you to this thread. But it shouldn’t be that difficult to know that that was the briefest of synopsis.
The state is on my side by the way. Charge… Murder 2 I believe.
I’ve posted several times how the known facts do not contradict my scenario. I think you are taking some liberties here.
“Places in custody” happens quite a while after the police arrive on the scene. Takes time to look around, find out what happened, check the victim, cuff the guy, place him in the car, etc.
The strawmen you put up get shot down time and time again and you keep trying to come up with new ones. Because you KNOW who’s guilty and you just have to find the right facts to support that conclusion. Whether they exist or not.
Then do explain how you decided that someone who never so much as brandished his gun is a trigger-happy cold-blooded murderer.
The state overcharged, quite blatantly and unethically, based on politics. As you will see when Zimmerman walks.
It should be noted that these numbers do not jibe with the time stamps on the actual event report produced by the Seminole County Sheriff’s office who handled the call.
You’ll have to decide for yourself if the time stamps are off or if the notes Serino copied off of were in error or if Serino made an error copying.
How peculiar of you to put it this way. Do the known facts in any way support your scenario? I mean, the known facts do not contradict all kinds of “scenarios”. Aliens may have come down in a cloaked craft, mind-controlled George and made him get his gun out and kill Martin. “The known facts do not contradict” this scenario, do they?
So, you think when it says 7:17:40 Tim Smith arrives on scene it means he arrived at the exact scene of the crime, and not just the general scene? If that is so, you’re wrong and it never happened. If 7:19:43 is the time he put Z in the vehicle, why is the “locates” reference not in the 7:17:40 notation?
You keep on claiming your victories. We can all see where the bluster is coming from.
To be clear, I don’t think Zimmy just ganked Martin because he felt like it.
What I suspect - in this “humble opinion and speculation thread” - is that Martin went scooting behind the houses to get away from Zimmerman and stopped to hide on one of the back decks. I figure he was just going to get out of sight and hide from whoever it was, whether it was some weirdo he was afraid of or just some guy he felt like jerking around doesn’t matter. He’d hang out back there and talk to his girlfriend.
Zimmerman comes looking for him, rounds the corner, neither one knowing where the other one is and they stumble upon each other.
Adrenaline rushes all around, it turns into, “What the fuck do you want?” “No. What the fuck do you want?” At whatever point, Zimmerman tells him the cops are on the way and he’s not going anywhere.
Martin says, fuck that noise and pops Zimmy in the schnozz. Zimmy pulls him down with him, they struggle, Zimmy reaches for his problem solver - and I don’t believe for a second he would have gotten out of his truck with out it - and solves his problem by shooting Martin in the chest.
And a year from now, Zimmerman will be elected deputy-sherriff somewhere in Squeallikeapig, Florida.