Or Zimmerman having fallen to the ground with Martin in the scuffle is clinging to Martins hoody in an effort to prevent his escape. While Martin is pushing and shoving at Zimmerman in an attempt to break free. Injuries occur. Martin is close to pulling free of Zimmerman. Out comes gun in last ditch effort to exert [del]his authority[/del] control over the situation and bang it goes off. Maybe intentional, maybe unintentional, either way Martin pulls away from a stunned Zimmerman and collapses dead in short order.
Should be normal practice for anyone with a carry permit. Carrying without “one in the pipe” is just wrong.
Here is a time corrected version created by Diwataman.
7:09:34 George Connection Time (4m4s phone call) (Event Report#2012571656)
7:13:41 last entry (Event Report#2012571656)
7:16:11 Possible Connection Time W11 (Media)
7:16:41 Possible Connection Time W3 (Media)
7:16:56 Gunshot
7:17:11 ARV I assume means arrival by Tim Smith (Event Report#2012571656)
7:17:36 PEU (Event Report#2012571656)
7:19:52 PEU (Event Report#2012571656)
7:20:21 REM (Event Report#2012571656)
7:20:30 Connection Time Possibly George calling 911 or just a duplicate report (Event Report), George does look like he is on the phone in the bloody head photo taken on scene by W13. (Event Report #20120571685)
Because Zimmerman lost Martin, and the only way he could have found him again was if Martin, instead of going home, turned around and walked back to him. For reasons that almost certainly died with him, Martin made the decision not to go home, but back towards the guy he was supposedly scared of.
Correct. In fact, trying to make sure the police could find him was a good, if stupid, thing to do. I’m sure you’d be happy to live in a neighbourhood where burglaries and assaults are ignored, or actively encouraged, but I’m not. That’s why I have no problem with Zimmerman’s actions, apart from the fact that he put himself at risk.
Bullshit. Martin’s trespassing and his attack on Zimmerman were the catalysts for this. There’s no evidence that Zimmerman did anything to justify Martin’s attack on him, and indeed no-one’s come up with a plausible suggestion of what he could have done to justify such an attack.
Based solely on the evidence we have, the rational conclusion is that Zimmerman was trying to look out for his neighbourhood, when Martin launched an unprovoked attack on him.
You think it’s a travesty that someone who can’t be proved to have committed a crime will walk? What the fuck is wrong with you? The travesty is that people are seriously suggesting that he should be tried, convicted, and punished despite there being no proof of any crime having been committed, let alone that he committed it.
If that’s what truly happened, Zimmerman actually committed no crime. Why, then, are you not complaining about the injustice in him being arrested and tried at all?
I’ve no doubt that if Z actually admitted he murdered TM because he looked at him funny, there’d still be some in this thread demanding conclusive evidence of his guilt and blaming his turnaround on being got at.
Close enough to what I believe happened and have posted previously. If Terr agrees to quit tossing the hyperbole grenades around, I’d even agree to find and link up my long winded explanation.
No more a crime than Zimmerman following him. In other words. Not a crime.
My neighborhood has a fair bit of crime and has a neighborhood watch. We are strongly discouraged from following or approaching suspicious individuals. Our liaison officer suggest to stay in our home or vehicle and report what can be observed from there.
Or reasonably conclude Zimmerman tried to effect a citizens arrest and things went horribly wrong. Either way it is still a tragedy for Martin and good luck for Zimmerman.
If Zimmerman did not have a gun, do you really think that it was a certainty that someone would have died that night?
Any system that strives to not convict an innocent man is bound to have travesties of justice. It is the price we pay for freedom and a presumption of innocence.
So, it would seem that just over 2 minutes after the gunshot, W13 was photographing Z’s head. There is no suggestion that the photo was taken in the presence of the police, so the idea that Tim Smith was there 20 seconds after the gunshot is patently bollocks.
Again, sensible. It’s done for the protection of the individual watching, and this case shows that people approaching suspected criminals can get injured.
Hmm. I don’t think there’s any actual evidence that he attempted a citizen’s arrest, and without that I don’t think one can reasonably conclude that it happened. It’s not contradicted by the evidence, but, as Terr has (somewhat hyperbolically) pointed out, there are an unlimited number of scenarios not contradicted by the evidence, and we should not reasonably assume they are true.
As for your second point, I agree it’s a tragedy for Martin. I’m not so sure it’s good luck for Zimmerman, though. I don’t think one can assume his life has been improved by the events of that night.
No, I don’t. I don’t, however, believe that any of Zimmerman’s actions, or the combination of them, lead to a situation where there was any certainty of someone dying. I don’t believe he took any actions that (a reasonable person would say) he should have known would lead to the death of another, prior to the gunshot.
Here, I appear to disagree with Bricker, and the others who think it was manslaughter.
Oh, and using my earlier estimate of the likely length of the encounter being no more than 70 seconds, that would take us back from 7:16:56 to 7:15:40 thereabouts, leaving 2 minutes between the end of his phone call and his initial assault. Is it really likely that he took that long to get from RVC to the point where he was punched?
What you think is likely is irrelevant, when the evidence shows otherwise. The evidence shows the fight lasted longer than 70 seconds. It doesn’t matter how exceptionally unlikely that was.
What evidence shows even approximately how long the fight lasted? We know how much of it was recorded by witnesses, but how have you established how long the fight had been occuring prior to any callers picking up the disturbance on their phone? Go on, tell us how long you estimate or know the fight to be.
OK, how exactly does Martin know when Zimmerman first saw him?
“By his house” indicates he’s right outside his dad’s address because the statement was made as an explanation to Dee Dee why he doesn’t have to run. He’s already there.
