Dimmy Derko first and recently betenoire39. Not sure why DD was but you saw some of the warnings for betenoire39.
Zimmerman quote
Yes, I understand Zimmerman says this but I don’t understand your point. He’s talking about a few seconds at most where he isn’t yelling help. Zimmerman isn’t lying there like a mannequin taking the beating. According to him he was able to squirm his head off the cement. And at this point he obviously has use of his hands at this point (because of the shooting) so he’s not going to let Martin smother him for any length of time.
Well it doesn’t matter from the perspective that he’s entitled to do whatever he wants but it reinforces Zimmerman’s claim that he’s standing around looking at houses. For someone who’s on a mission (in the rain) to acquire a single can of ice tea and some skittles for his little brother it certainly took a great deal of time. Even more so given that he ran part of the way.
Oh really? Lol. Just a few seconds, eh?
The scream on that tape is relentless the last twenty seconds or so before the gun goes off. Zimmerman will need to point out to the judge exactly when his breath was cut off during that unbroken stream of loud, desperate vocalizations. And he’ll need all the luck he can get in doing this without looking like a murderer depraved enough to pass off the voice of his soon-to-be-dead victim as his own.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/nyregion/06cellphone.html?pagewanted=all
Hopefully the cellphone pings can help orient both Trayvon and George’s movements.
Yes really. you can hear gaps in screaming. pick one. I’d say the gap between 9 and 10 on the cite given.
Why would Martin be yelling and not Zimmerman? Zimmerman is getting his ass kicked and Martin is doing the beating. your assumption isn’t logical.
you keep calling Zimmerman a liar yet he cooperated with the police in every way including a lie detector test he volunteered to take. I don’t understand how you come to the conclusions you come to based on the evidence.
What you are stating is incorrect. You need to listen to the 911 calls again and time the yelling versus non-yelling times. It is not relentless. You also have no evidence about the yelling/non-yelling times before the 911 calls.
The illogical position is thinking that an unarmed kid who had been on his way home, minding his own business until Zimmerman starting pursuing him, would have been less likely to scream for help that the armed man who had exited his truck to chase after him and then shot him.
It is pretty damned relentless for someone who is supposedly having his head and face whacked and then subjected to smothering.
Like I said before, it’s one thing to be confident of acquittal. To act as though Zimmerman has a good chance of winning the immunity hearing in spite of all the evidence against his claims for how the shooting occurred (the absence of Z’s blood on Martin’s sleeves, his clean fingernails, the audio of the screaming, the witnesses who said a boy was screaming, etc.), just makes you guys look totally out of touch with reality.
You also have to wonder why both Brandi Green and Tracy Martin, at least before they clammed up, claimed Trayvon was sitting on the back porch before the shooting.
You’re ignoring the fact that he didn’t go home, and was out walking for far longer than he would need to be if he were going home, and that he wasn’t minding his own business, but looking at various houses, trespassing on people’s property, and repeatedly approaching Zimmerman for an unknown reason. Also, as far as we can tell from the evidence, Zimmerman didn’t chase Martin.
You’re right that the position you describe would be illogical, but it’s not a position anyone has advanced.
None of that is evidence against Zimmerman’s claim. There was no boy in this encounter, so no-one could have heard a boy scream. That’s another holdover from the misleading initial picture of Martin that was released.
He doesn’t need to turn a blind eye. But just because Zimmerman (says he) forgot he had a gun until that point does not compel the conclusion you urge: that he only shot because of the verbal threat.
Because you don’t make yourself accountable for your incorrect statements. You dodge and weave, and then ultimately abandon a point when it’s obviously indefensible without ever acknowledging you were in error.
So I’m trying to make that tactic as difficult as possible for you by eliciting some kind of definitive statement ahead of time.
So if, despite all that evidence, he wins the SYG hearing, what will you say?
What does Zimmerman following him have to do with the who was screaming? What you’re suggesting is that Martin beat an unarmed man viciously (he didn’t know Zimmerman had a gun) and screamed the whole time doing it.
Your argument is a purely emotional one. You can’t get passed the idea that Martin was an innocent kid walking home and didn’t deserve to die. That was true right up to the point he attacked Zimmerman and the evidence indicates he went out of his way to do so. Given the lack of threat Zimmerman posed in the conversation it indicates Martin intended some kind of altercation. And since the yelling started AFTER the verbal exchange it’s apparent that Zimmerman didn’t have his gun out or Martin would have said something about it (he was still talking to Dee Dee at the time) and he would have started yelling at that point. This did not happen.
If Zimmerman had his gun out then it’s safe to say Martin would have seen this and never approached him. Martin had to be hiding somewhere in the shadows in order for Zimmerman not to have seen him. He had to hear Zimmerman’s conversation to the police dispatcher and known Zimmerman was meeting someone. It was a polite conversation without hint of anger. Martin on the other hand is talking in a lowered voice to his girlfriend. Zimmerman isn’t going to hear him. Martin’s actions are entirely driven by Martin.
The SCOTUS has already addressed your “splits the whole encounter” thought.
The law has grown, and even if historical mistakes have contributed to its growth, it has tended in the direction of rules consistent with human nature. Many respectable writers agree that, if a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant, he may stand his ground, and that, if he kills him, he has not exceeded the bounds of lawful self-defense. That has been the decision of this Court. . . . Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him.
J Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., in Brown v United States, 256 US 335, 343 (1921).
There is no “The Scuffle and The Gun Grab”. There is only a fight. GZ did not have the time or the opportunity for “detached reflection” while he was being beaten by TM. GZ was not in a situation where he could pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly (flee) with safety or to disable (by force of strength or shooting TM in a non-lethal part of his anatomy) his assailant rather than to kill him.
There are no Marquess of Queensberry-type rules in a street fight. Something that TM would have been aware given his street fighting videos. I’m assuming that GZ was also aware that there are no rules to a street fight but it’s not like he had the time or the opportunity to think about it.
Did TM attempt to smother or silence GZ by covering GZ’s mouth and broken nose during the assault? GZ says he did. Would that have been painful? Heck YA. Did GZ believe that TM was trying to murder him. More than likely.
According to FLA law, GZ is allowed to use lethal force if he reasonably believes his life is in immediate threat of harm (aka imminent, life threatening danger).
Something that I’ve wondered about the whole time is where the can of ice tea is located in the crime scene. The mark on the right side of Zimmerman’s nose and the subsequent swelling suggests he was hit with the edge of the can. I would expect Martin to use the can in a street fight with no rules. I mention this in case it comes up at trial and not as a debate point.
It wasn’t “ice tea”, it was a can of “AriZona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail”. just sayin’ 
TM certainly took his time getting home. Maybe he was taking “the Grand Tour” of the neighborhood? While it wasn’t illegal, he behavior could certainly look “suspicious” to someone who lived in that neighborhood. That’s exactly why GZ called the police. IIRC, in the previous year, there had been an average of one call per day to the police from Twin Oaks residents. I don’t consider that unusual from a neighborhood with a crime problem. GZ had averaged one call per week. I don’t consider that unusual for a neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood with a crime problem.
Since you mentioned it, isn’t that assault with a deadly weapon?
I’d like to address “you with the face” for a moment.
We’ve lost 2 posters who IMO had problems separating their emotions from dialogue with other posters. I don’t see this as a problem with you but I do see where you’ll feel like you’re being ganged up on in the absence of the banned posters. Don’t feel that you are being set upon because that is not my intention and I think I speak for most of the other posters. These threads become heated at times and nobody should take it personally. It’s not about any of us and certainly not about you.