You mean, besides the ‘following Martin in his car from behind for a quarter of a mile, then *running after *the ‘asshole punk’ that ‘always gets away’, while carrying a loaded gun’ bit?
What part of that would you describe as *not *going out of his way to start a street fight?
George thought this person was highly suspicious, might be on drugs, and was very possibly armed. Standing there like an idiot while trying to dial his phone in the dark is just stupid.
Look at it this way - if you were in your living room next to your phone when a burgler rushed in - would you reach for the phone to dial 911, with the burgler standing right in front of you? OF COURSE NOT!
If you were upstairs out of sight and possibly out of hearing, you might. But not with the burgler standing right in front of you. It’s retarded beyond belief to think otherwise. ‘Excuse me, young drugged-up possibly armed asshole punk, pls just stand there or maybe run away while I call the cops to come arrest you’.
I think he tried to grab/restrain Martin until the cops (who he already knew were on the way) arrived. I don’t think he should have reached for his gun. But I’d have a much easier time believing/understanding that, then the idea that he reached for his phone.
He only followed him 200 feet in his car at the most.
The part where he calls the police and coordinates their arrival. The part where he defers to the Dispatcher’s request not to follow Martin (he never actually chases him because Martin is long gone at this point). And most importantly, the part where he didn’t attack Martin.
That’s a wildly inapt analogy. A burgler rushing into your home is a felon in the act of committing a felony.
A suspicious person on the street is just that. Martin hadn’t committed any crimes that Zimmerman had witnessed, he would not have been arrested when the police arrived, and Martin knew that.
Is there any evidence that supports your theory?
again, calling the police is the only legal thing he can do. He’s standing within earshot of people if anything bad happens and when it does he did exactly what you suggested and yells for help. Sadly the people around him can’t be bothered by someone being attacked. Sadder still is Martin’s attack.
He’s not standing in Zimmerman’s house and he wasn’t seen burglarizing a house so I can’t look at it that way. Martin was simply a suspicious person that Zimmerman wanted the police to check out. If Martin was one of the people breaking into houses then getting questioned by the police puts him on notice against future acts.
again, this is not a comparable scenario. Breaking into someone’s house is not remotely comparable to looking a house over.
There is no evidence to support your scenario. There isn’t a mark on Martin’s body. And grabbing Martin is just as illegal as pulling his gun out. You’re suggesting that he called the police in advance so they could arrest him for assault.
The only reason Trayvon didn't have a criminal record was he was placed in a diversion program, which if successfully completed, meant he would have no criminal record. The only way to get into the program is to commit a crime.
There is no fucking way any sane person stands there and calls the police when they’ve been - according to Zimmerman - verbally accosted in an aggressive manner by someone they think is drugged up and armed and is now standing right in front of them. It defies all common sense.
More importantly, GEORGE JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE NEN DISPATCH. He knows the cops are already on the way!
So why is he pulling his phone out to call the cops again?
It makes zero sense.
The better question to ask is why wouldn’t a reasonable person first try to flee from the type of person that would prompt them to call the police.
You might be a little right if cops appeared instaneously as soon as a phone was whipped out. In the real world, though, it doesn’t work like that. So we have to believe that Zimmerman, standing face-to-face with a suspect criminal, in almost complete darkness, thought it would be a good idea to make a telephone call instead of high tailing it to his truck, locking the doors, and then calling the cops.
Since his alleged behavior defies instinct and common sense, at a minimum, it is reasonable to believe that this claim is a lie. Why would he lie about this? It is reasonable to believe that he lied because the truth hurts his case. What detail, if true, could possibly hurt his case? That he pulled out his gun, not his phone.
Pulling out his gun makes a lot more sense than pulling out his phone.
It’s the most sensible thing Zimmerman could have done. You’re making it out like Martin was Jason Vorhees holding a machete; all Zimmerman knew was that Martin “looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something”, and that at one point Martin had his hand in his waistband.
The odds on Martin attacking him as he went for the phone have to be absolutely minute.
On their way to the mailboxes, not to where Zimmerman was.
It makes total sense if you abide by the law. The police don’t know his location. They’re on their way to his truck. The phone call puts Martin on notice and tells the police where to go.
Ah. I see.
And just how was George going to tell the cops where he was? According to him he didn’t know where he was.
Because they don’t want to turn their back on such a person? Because they didn’t assume that a suspected burgler/petty thief/vandal would violently assault someone? Because then they would be unable to call police and give an update, if they are sprinting in the opposite direction?
Since the police don’t arrive instantaneously, that’s all the more reason for the burgler to flee, as opposed to attacking the person with the phone.
Again, it’s not like Zimmerman witnessed Martin committing a murder. Would you beat someone who saw you wandering a neighborhood suspiciously?
If Zimmerman thought Martin was just a possible burgler, calling the police makes total sense: it updates the police on what’s happening, and disincentives the suspect from attacking. What are the odds that a burgler would want to hang around and beat you, versus hightailing it, or just explaining to the cops that they were not, in fact, a burgler (even if they were, unless there was immediate evidence at hand that they’d committed a burglery).
So, assume Zimmerman drew his pistol. How, then, does he end up beaten? If Martin attacked, which he’d have to do in the face of a pistol pointed at him Zimmerman would have shot him right off, or if he didn’t for some reason, surely Martin would be fighting for the pistol, and not just beating Zimmerman’s face while Zimmerman held a handgun.
Can you explain this?
How about this:
“Yeah, I just called, the suspicious guy is right in front of me. Don’t stop at the mailboxes, drive around till you see me. I can see house number XYZ, but I don’t know which street. This guy’s scary, please hurry.”
Flee? From a teenager? Zimmerman isn’t going to outrun him and unless he’s sucker punched he should be able to defend himself. 20/20 hindsight doesn’t work.
Martin is a teenager suspected of looking over a house. He wasn’t caught burglarizing a house. No crime had been committed. It was just suspicious activity.
He could be lying. You have no evidence of this. Without evidence you’re just making shit up. What we know is that Martin engaged in a vicious attack. We know from DD’s account that Zimmerman asked him what he was doing there which by it’s nature would insult Martin. So you put 2 and 2 together you have a teenager who sees someone watching him and confronts him twice. It’s not hard to understand that he was spoiling for a fight and the question triggered the response.
you’re suggesting an illegal act committed knowing the police will arrive any minute. This is insane. Martin did not pose a threat that warranted a gun unless he himself displayed a weapon.
I’m behind the houses my truck is pointed at. Just follow the sidewalk. We’ll be able to straighten this out but he seems agitated.
Because he is the neighborhood watch guy, and because Martin behaved in an unexpectedly violent manner.
No it doesn’t, so that is not reasonable at all.
But since Zimmerman did not shoot Martin until after Martin attacked him, broke his nose, blackened his eyes, knocked him down and bashed his head on the ground, and since Zimmerman was screaming for help during the fight, we can be reasonably sure he did not pull out his gun. If he had, he could have shot Martin before Martin inflicted the injuries on the back of his head, and there would have been no need for Zimmerman to scream for help.
So we now see that Zimmerman’s account is backed up by the evidence. Not a lie at all.
Regards,
Shodan
He can see the house number…how, exactly? Remember, he’s right where he was when he said he ‘couldn’t see any house number’ during the video walk through. He’s not near the street…
‘This guy’s scary - please hurry. Oh, yeah, the scary guy is RIGHT FUCKING IN FRONT OF ME and he can hear me calling you, and he’s scary, but I’m sure this asshole punk that’s always up to no good, and who I think might be armed, will just stand there quietly until you arrive’. :rolleyes:
So in your little corner of the universe, Martin asking the guy who’s been stalking him for a quarter of a mile, first in his truck then on foot, ‘why are you following me’ is ‘behaving in an unexpectedly violent manner’? Can we get one more :rolleyes:
‘Drive around till you see me’? :smack: God that’s one of the stupidest things I’ve seen in this thread.
Amend as needed, then. As noted, his truck is a reference point as well.
So, the wise course of action would be to make sure no one knew you were alone with the Michael Myers-esque supervillain that Martin has now become? Why is calling the police an insane, provacative thing to do around a suspected burgler, but shouting for help isn’t, when they amount to the same thing?
That was Shodan. I assume the unexpected violence was Martin beating Zimmerman, but I’d let him field that one.
The entire neighborhood is three freakin’ streets, after all. It’s not a needle in a haystack.
Still waiting on that evidence that Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin, by the way.
Also, still not sure why it seems impossible to you that Zimmerman was treating Martin like a suspicious person and possible burgler, nothing more or less, as opposed to a beast that walks like a man, and is ravening for blood.
If you are coming in with the preconceived idea that all suspicious-acting teens are also violent aggressors, that’s on you.
Why should a fully grown man fear Martin? Had he not been sucker punched he should have been able to take care of himself.
he wasn’t following him for a quarter mile. it was 200 feet. Is there some reason why you can’t state the facts without embellishment.
I provided a simple statement Zimmerman could have made to direct the police to him. Care to address that or are you just going to run your mouth?