>>monstro is all “doubtful” about the screams from Zimmerman. <<
I am open to doubt that they are not Zimmerman’s cries. There are witnesses who told police they were Martin’s screams. If Zimmerman was struggling to get his gun from his holster, he might not have been yelling for help, and Martin might have been.
But having listened to the tape with the cries, and heard Zimmerman’s voice at the bail hearing, it sounds to me that it was Zimmerman whining, pleading. But I’m open to new evidence.
But there has to be corresponding injuries on Z’s face, if that is the case. Certainly if Martin dug in his nails to get the leverage necessary to repeatedly move his head like that, there would fingernail scratch marks on his scalp and face. But there’s nothing like that there.
PS: @you with the face:
I just can’t tell about how the head would be cut. I would think it would depend on what was on the sidewalk.
Because African Americans are incapable of constructing coherent sentences?
@you with the face,
Sorry. We were posting at the same time.
I’ve not seen all the medical reports. I don’t know how thorough they were. I think I can hold somebody’s face with great force without gouging my fingernails into their skin. I don’t know how big Martin’s hands were. I have a nephew who can grip a basketball with one hand.
I have only been trying to figure out in my own mind why the cries on the tape don’t sound like they are coming from somebody who is being repeatedly punched. One possibility is that they are coming from Martin – whose autopsied body showed no signs of being punched. The other is that Martin only punched Zimmerman a very few times, and otherwise used weight and leverage to keep Zimmerman pinned and in pain.
@Larry Mudd
Thanks for the link. It is taking a long time to load – and right now I am going to make my dinner, so I’ll have to look at it later.
Serious answer: There is at least one instance where Zimmerman decides against leaving the vehicle but there were two “suspects” and I don’t know when Zimmerman bought his gun.
Zimmerman bought his gun in December 2009. (Reuters) So it was available two him on Oct. 1, 2011 or Aug. 6, 2011. (The Daily Beast) There is audio of one of those calls where he says he doesn’t want to go out there.
That is simply not true. The witness said that while he is sure that Martin was on top, he is less certain about what Martin was doing. He said he was either hitting Zimmerman or pinning him down–though initially he said he was punching MMA-style. How do you confusing punching MMA-style and pinning someone, I’d like to know. But my point is that he is no longer sure that Martin was going to town on Zimmerman, as he originally said. I invite you to check behind me and post something from a cite that contradicts this. Because I don’t take kindly to accusations of lying or “misleading”.
Because I don’t think Martin was on top for that long. There is another witness who saw the two of them separated, for one thing. And Witness 6 only saw a snapshot in time. If the two of them were wrestling, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Martin would be on top in one instance and then be on the bottom in another.
Being on top does not preclude someone from screaming, either. I don’t know why you are unable to imagine that Zimmerman may have been holding onto Martin and revealing his gun regardless of their respective positions.
Wrong link, as it happens. Meant to bethis one.
We are supposed to be doubtful that a black teenage boy says “I am begging you”.
But we are supposed to believe that in his last moments the kid would utter lines straight out of a comic book?
Imho, the physician who examined them first hand decided the call the something else.
Iirc, the original attorney said that there wasn’t enough evidence BEFORE the SPD investigation had been completed.
So, it could also be that once the SPD investigation completed and had been turned over to the prosecutor that there was new information in the case than when the original guy made his determination.
Just saying. The investigation by the SPD didn’t conclude until March 12th or 13th or so.
I mean, your point could’ve played a role too.
But we should at least consider the possibility that the subsequent findings of the investigation played a role in the prosecutor’s decision.
Possibly we should even rule out the possibility that the subsequent findings of the investigation played a role in the prosecutor’s decision before we begin ascribing untoward motives to the prosecution.
It’d be more convincing that way anyhow. imho
Shouts out “I am begging you”, not just says it. Yeah, right.
And no, you should believe neither. If you don’t believe he was doing “comic book” lines, you shouldn’t believe the “I am begging you” crap either.
I wonder why Zimmerman’s statement is being treated like a confession, rather than like any other witness statement. Could it be that he incriminates himself in some major way? What is the legal basis for this action?
What exactly makes “I am begging you” so implausible? You mentioned him being African American when you made that comment. What does that have to do with anything?
We really don’t know this to be true, do we?
We know that this is how it’s playing out on the interwebs, but Z’s story may put more emphasis on other aspects of the story–like the declaration by M that Z was going to die tonight while M was reaching for Z’s gun.
People on the interwebs don’t seem to be as enamored of that as the injuries on the back of Z’s head. But that seems a much stronger and less ambiguous case for self-defense than the head injuries.
It’s possible that Z doesn’t view his case the same way that people on teh webz do.
Iirc, the nail scrapings from M showed only M’s blood there.
for w/e that’s worth
Doesn’t this apply to you as well?
“I’m begging you!” doesn’t strike me as that crazy out of the mouth of someone who is scared and out of control of his emotions.
“You’re going to die tonight” sounds like a line pulled from a badly written spy movie.
But I’m fine with discounting all the dialogue as crazy, apart from some convincing evidence.
The question is, are you? And what does it say about your ability to view this unbiasedly that you are willing to accept that a modern teenage boy would use the outdated term “homie”, but “I’m begging you!” is such an unrealistic construction?
Or “okay, you got it” after having your heart exploded by a bullet.
I can’t even believe the most hardcore Z-teamster can even believe Martin said that.
he saw one person on top of the other. It’s consistent with Zimmerman’s injuries.