I wouldn’t be skeptical of a teen using standard English - but in context I wouldn’t give it much more weight than if it were from an up-front Electronic Voice Phenomenon “expert.”
What exactly makes this dialog implausible:
Martin: “What’s your problem, homie?”
Zimmerman: “I don’t have a problem.”
Martin: “You do now” (and punch)
Zimmerman shoots Martin
Martin: “It’s over. You got me.” falls dead.
Is that implausible? Then “I am begging you” is doubly implausible.
It is treated this way in order for the prosecution not to have to release it to the public.
Can you point out the post in which I was willing to accept the “homie” dialog?
“Homie” is implausible because the term went out of style in the 90’s, probably when Martin was still in diapers. It would be like me, when I was his age, calling a stranger “jive turkey” or “daddio”.
“You do now” isn’t implausible in the same way, but it sounds contrived. Like something out of bad movie script.
I just learned that you are from the former USSR, so you’re probably not qualified to say what is plausible speech for an American teenaged black male.
There has to be legal basis for this, though. Otherwise, the State could pick and choose which evidence to release to the public under the sunshine law.
Yes of course. My last 32 years living in the US do not qualify me at all.
“Legal basis” is calling it a confession.
It seems quite likely since he did it before in 2003.
Please note that Zimmerman was 19 at the time.
Personally I think people who think firearms will make them brave are on a par with people who think that wearing a seatbelt will make them drive less cautiously.
The witness appears to have changed his description of what he saw from a “ground and pound” to something else.
It appears to me that this somewhat helps Zimmerman rather than incriminating him. If Zimmerman (or the witness) had claimed that Martin’s major attack was a ground-and-pound, one would expect more injuries to Martin’s hands from punching, or to his forearms or elbows (or Martin’s forehead - downward head butting is another useful tactic in situations such as a street-fight ground-and-pound, although illegal in most MMA competitions).
Zimmerman’s claim as far as can be determined is that Martin did not ground-and-pound him, but repeatedly bashed his head against the ground from the top mount. This can be accomplished by grabbing the throat, ears, hair (given Zimmerman’s short hair, probably not in this case) or the collar.
But the distinction between pinning and fighting “MMA style” is not useful in this context, because getting the top mount, i.e. pinning your opponent, is a key part of a successful striking attack in groundfighting. You need to be past the guard to control your opponent’s movements.
You don’t need to be a skilled MMA proponent to bring it off - it is a common course of events as a follow up to a rush/sucker punch attack, in my experience. Hit the guy in the face, knock him down, and then jump on top and whale away. Martin apparently chose (if Zimmerman’s story is correct) to try to bash Zimmerman’s head. This is easier on the hands, but Martin’s other option (had he had any skill in groundfighting) is to work for a submission, or try to take the back. Either of those would have been better, because as it turns out, Zimmerman was able to access a weapon. And despite Martin’s superior position, one bullet outweighs a dozen top mounts in street fighting.
Regards,
Shodan
Which implies Zimmerman confessed to the crime of murder or manslaughter. if thats not what he did, then it would seem like misuse of terms to call it a confession.
Aren’t you a little bit curious as to why his statement has been kept secret, if its airtight? The defense hasn’t leaked it either, which you’d certainly expect if it helped Z.
Thanks, Larry Mudd.
You wrote “How do you confusing punching MMA-style and pinning someone, I’d like to know.”
I’m not an expert, but Mixed Martial Arts has a lot do with pinning people down in “submission”, and using your whole body to keep them down. It is interesting that the witness later changed his testimony it would appear, in part, because he didn’t recall hearing punching. Maybe that is what made him reconsider if he really had enough light to distinguish anything more than what he does recall with clarity: Martin on top, clearly dominating, in a struggle.
It doesn’t imply anything about Zimmerman confessing to any crimes. The prosecutor is trying really hard not to release evidence. She said that, explicitly, in an interview a couple of days ago. She could not do anything about the evidence that was already released, due to Florida sunshine laws. But things that she can even marginally force under the exceptions to that law, like Zimmerman’s interrogation records and the telecom records, she’s not releasing.
Nothing unusual is being done in not releasing to the public George Zimmerman’s statements to the police. It is pre-existing state law that such statements can’t be released pre-trial, no matter who the defendant is. It doesn’t matter what the contents are, and by terming them “confessions”, I don’t think it prejudices the case against the defendant with an assumption that he made a confession of guilt.
I don’t know the rationale for the law.
But there no evidence on Zimmerman or Martin that this is what happened. No bruising on Z’s neck suggestive of a throat grab (and he belted a scream for help through that?), and no flaming red ears in that pic. His clothes didnt look roughed up either in that surveillance vid. His shirt still looked tucked in.
We can speculate all day on possible ways Zimmerman could have gotten his head bashed by Martin that fit with the physical evidence. But the real question is what did Zimmerman say took place. If he said Martin palmed his head between his two hands and bashed it on the sidewalk like a melon, then there should be some evidence beyond two weirdly placed cuts to show for that. Some busted capillaries where his fingers were pressing or something.
I already addressed this in a previous post with comments on the coroner’s report. Martin died too quickly for his knuckles to show any bruising.
I personally interpreted the MMA comment as meaning that Martin was imitating what he saw on television. If Martin actually had any fighting skills, then Zimmerman would have been unconscious or dead by the time the police got there.
But Zimmerman doesn’t have the injuries that you would expect from a “repeated bashing”, either. Read the EMT report and next day medical report. No concussion. No LOC. Perfect Glasgow score and PMS. Nothing noted but the two lacerations on the back of his head. All of his injuries are the most consistent with a single punch, and a fall where he hit the back of his head. No signs of repeated bashing or any sort of “wailing” (or whaling) on his face.
The new audio analysis also makes note of what is NOT heard in the final 45 seconds before the gunshot, and that is the indication of any type of fighting going on. Why would Zimmerman be screaming in that manner, at that point, for that type of scuffle (no head bashing or face pounding)? How plausible is that?
The audio analysis stuff is tricky. I understand the quality is not the best, but there is still something to work with within the limitations. As YWTF noted earlier, that stretching out of the vowel sounds is more consistent with a teenager than a fully developed male. So far there have been experts that say it is Trayvon, and experts who say it is inconclusive. I wonder if the defense will find someone to match it to Zimmerman, using accepted procedures. But it will be used, and anyone who hears it and hears it as Trayvon - that will be very powerful for the prosecution. To shoot someone in the heart while he’s begging you to stop - I guess that’s why Corey went with murder 2.
Out of curiosity, what term replaced “homie,” and, if used, would have rung true to you from today’s hip teen males?
I am not an urban teenager, but “dawg” would not stand out to me as so conspicuously out-of-date and -context.
“Homie” is something sad old dudes like me say.
Dude.
Bro.
Man.
Motherfucker.
Even the “n-word”.
But homie? Maybe if he was in his 30s, it wouldn’t sound so off-key.
[being generous]Maybe Zimmerman simply heard him wrong.[/being generous]