Says who?
I’m raising the bullshit flag on this comment. The Freemasons don’t ask people to join their organization. What happens is someone asks a known Mason if they can join the club. THis can be found at http://freemasonry.org/maryland/GL/glnewmason.htm
I think I’ll go with the Freemason’s take on how to join rather than an anecdote with no other proof than “and yes, I was.”
Yeah, well it still stands that you have to be invited. You can ask a mason about membership all day but if you aren’t invited and sponsored you can’t join. If there is an application for membership it has yet to be presented. And considering that it is a secret society and membership is only recognized by secret symbols in public, exactly how would one go about identifying a “known mason”? Monty, are you a mason?
Allow me to call bullshit on this one and save you some effort, Monty. In Virginia you can get a freaking Freemason license plate. The one Mason I know well has, aside from the license plate, a signet ring with the Mason symbol. I have also seen a guy at a party with a Mason belt buckle. Hardly the most secretive public symbols.
Attaining a belt buckle or a ring does equal attaing a membership. I don’t think it’s a secret that the masons exist or that some people are proud masons…Where are the applications for becoming a mason? Living in the rural south, I have seen, on many counts the exclusiveness of the organazation. I certainly don’t think that the Masons are taking over the world but did anyone visit the BBC site? Is it so inconceivable that an organazation with a great deal of wealthy participants could use the ignorance of less affluent members to tip the scales for self serving benefits? Enron…
Sorry, Sweet Willy, you’re either misinformed or so convinced you’re right that you’re unwilling to accept the facts.
Here, I’ll make it easy for you to identify at least one “known Mason;”
HEY WILLY, I’M A MASON!
In answer to the compound question you asked in your earlier post:
(a) Yes, I am a Mason.
(b) I am a Member of Hiram Lodge No. 81, F. & A.M. We meet at the Chestnut Hill Masonic Center on Germantown Avenue in Philadelphia, PA on the third Wednesday of every month at 7:30 PM and at such extra meetings as may be called. Our “secret meeting place” is easy to find; look for the sign out front. :rolleyes:
Because my work required that I relocate to a more distant city, I am currently in the process of transferring to Perserverance Lodge No. 21, F. & A.M., which meets at the Scottish Rite Cathedral in Harrisburg, PA at 7 PM on the second Monday of each month and at such extra meetings as may be called. Again, you can find our “secret meeting place” by looking for the sign out front.
In most American Masonic lodges, a square and compass, along with meeting information and contact telephone numbers, are posted on the lodge building or in a prominent public place (like the Chamber of Commerce signboards at the entrance to town).
As for recognizing the “secret symbols” in public, do you mean the Masonic ring I (and most other Masons) wear? Or perhaps you’re talking about the various belt buckles, shirts, jackets, hats, and so forth that most Masons own and wear. In fact, you usually can’t get away from a Masonic function in Pennsylvania without getting a t-shirt or ball cap. Guess somebody didn’t get the memo about skulking around without visible insignia. And you can get Freemason license plates in Pennsylvania, too.
Now, to your petulant outburst quoted above:
Monty is right. You cannot be asked to join Freemasonry. You can be asked if you are interested in finding out about Masonry, and there are several different pamphlets and videos designed to be given to folks who express an interest in Freemasonry. But the man who wishes to become a Mason must ask for a petition to join a lodge. Directly asking a person to join the lodge (i.e. saying, “Please become a Mason”) is not permitted and soliciting membership in that manner is an offense that can result in your being expelled from Masonry.
Any male of the proper age who believes in a Supreme Being and is of good moral character can petition a Masonic lodge. It is true that you have to be vouched for as being of good character by a person already a Mason, but that is a formality. Although somebody may have asked if you were interested in joining, they would not take the matter further unless you requested more information and/or a petition for membership.
Zappo
Concidering that the masonic movement is supposed to have a christian foundation I find that extremely hard to believe.
Sweet Willy, as part of his unfocused ever-changing conspiracy theory, argued that the fact that you can’t identify a mason since they only use “secret” symbols apparently constitutes evidence of conspiracy. I am pointing out that a license plate is not a secret symbol. So even if we accept the “secret public symbols = organization of international intrigue” argument, he’s still wrong as a matter of objective fact.
Yes, they are exclusive like any number of other organizations. Exclusivity does not provide any evidence of an evil agenda. If you don’t like the Masons because they’re exclusive, fine. But Sweet Willy’s thesis seems to be that there is a broad international conspiracy. Since you don’t seem to endorse his view, I think you’re actually agreeing with me.
This is true of private clubs in general. You ordinarily have to ask a member about joining. But if those already “in” don’t want you, you are “out.”
What is the point of this baloney?
This is probably one of the most inane Great Debates of all times. John Ashcroft and GW can do more damage, in a week, to the “American Ideal” in the name of a “war on terrorism” than the Masons could in a lifetime, even if the Masons as a group were so inclined.
You’re still obligated to provide evidence of something to convince people it exists.
No, I’m not. Yes, I would. Masons are not terribly secretive about being masons.
I hoenstly don’t know what the hell you’re talking about with all these “Secret” signals. If they’re so secretive, how did you know about it? In Ontario, if you’re a Mason, you can have the freemasonry symbol put RIGHT ON YOUR LICENSE PLATE. I see it all the time. It’s not much of a secret if it’s on the damned license plate, is it? (And no, it’s not a special privilege, you can get any one of a thousand symbols on your license plate for a nominal fee.)
Appreciate it, Zoff.
Now, on to identifying and describing the organic fertizlizer:
No. Invite means somebody ask you to come and do something. Request means you go and ask them if you can do something. The two words do not mean the same thing.
You are half-right here, and I propose the reason is because I posted the link to the fact of the matter, so you are now dogpaddling trying to preserve your completely incorrect WAG.
It is up to the approached Mason to decide if he will sponsor you. His hands are not tied just because you think you should belong to their club. His duty, regarding a potential member for said club, is to determine if he can ethically sponsor someone. If, in his opinion, you don’t measure up to the standards, then he won’t sponsor you.
You just contradicted yourself. If there is an application for membership, it must be presented if there are sponsors.
It is not a secret society. Heck, the buildings are clearly marked and the members march in a lot of public parades. Next thing, you’ll be telling us that the Parade of Roses never happens.
The symbols aren’t secret. Just the day before yesterday, I was wearing my “Diego Garcia Square and Compass Club[sup]1[/sup]” t-shirt at college all day.
Why, by recognizing the PUBLIC and NON-SECRET symbols they have, or maybe even by recognizing the dude as someone I saw marching in the PUBLIC and NON-SECRET parade.
First off: This is just so weak as a debating technique, it’s laughable. Advice for you: do not resort to accusing someone of being a member of a group you despise when they prove your argument against that group is BS.
Second: No; however, I am a DeMolay and a member of DeMolay’s Knighthood. Also, my father is a Mason.
Why is everyone so defensive about this topic? Why do you think I despise the Masons? I know alot of masons. My father is a mason. I know the nature of the group. They do alot of charity work as I mentioned in this thread and I commend them. No where have I condemmed the masons. I asked a simple question based on what I know about the nature of masons. They look out for one another in a manner that they might not extend to the common man. There are and always have been examples of corruption amoung masons in government around the world. I am simply asking to what extent does this favoritism and corruption extend. There is a potential for corruption in all types of groups and organizations. Should I not question this subject?
Accuse? Excuse me but what are you talking about? I asked if he was a mason. A question is not an accusation.
Main Entry: ac·cuse
Pronunciation: &-'kyüz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): ac·cused; ac·cus·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French acuser, from Latin accusare to call to account, from ad- + causa lawsuit
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 : to charge with a fault or offense : BLAME
2 : to charge with an offense judicially or by a public process
intransitive senses : to bring an accusation
- ac·cus·er /&-'kyü-z&r/ noun
- ac·cus·ing·ly /-'kyü-zi[ng]-lE/ adverb
Now contemplating why you chose the word accuse. Is there something you aren’t telling us about the offensiveness of masons or is your diction just that poor?
Next question. Does anyone here recognize any form of corruption in any form of government or justice system that has involved favoritism between masonic brothers?
This is not an accusation but a question. There are facts of said corruption and are posted in this thread. Does anyone recognize them as factual?
Floater , Can you present anything to show the Christian foundation of masons? Masons are of all religions and stand at odds with the Catholic church amoung others. History of masonic ritual points not to christianity but to pagan and druid rituals.
Oh sure, Masons doubtless have sometimes done each other favours. So what? As you said yourself, ‘There is a potential for corruption in all types of groups and organizations’. The onus is on you to show that Masons are exceptionally so.
And you still haven’t answered my question - who says that Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are Masons?
So what? So I don’t agree with outside corruption perverting justice as it should be applied to all, with no exception to those affiliated with any private organization. Why do you feel I should bear the burden of proof that masons are exceptionally corrupt? I take exception to corruption no matter the degree. Do you suggest that masons are somehow entitled to a share of corruption so long as it is not exceptionally so? I have no where stated that the corruption amoung masons is any more exceptional than any other group. I may very well question another group in another thread at another time for the same type of corruption. The assertion that Laden and Hussein are masons is purely theorized by the conspiracy advocates. They cite emblems worn by Hussein that bear resemblence to masonic symbols. Bin Laden was to have given secret signals in recorded interviews. Did any of you masons pick up on any signals given by Bin Laden?
I don’t see why you are all picking on Sweet Willy. Just because he doesn’t have all the facts doesn’t mean he’s completely wrong.
See, the real story is that the Masons are just a front for the Bavarian Illuminati. All the stories about George Washington being a Mason are only skirting the truth that he was never President. The Illuminati, using the Masons as cover, replaced Washington with Adam Weisshaupt well before the election, and have been the guiding hand of US politics ever since. Sure, Masons run the world, but only as one of the many cover groups for the true enemy–the Illuminati.
Puhleeze.
Honestly, the “Masons run the world” conspiracy is tired, trite, and just plain silly. Willy my friend, if you’re that hard up for conspiracies, there are much better targets. Hell, even the Tri-Lats are better fodder than the Masons. I’d probably go with Skull and Bones myself–now there’s a truly secret organization.
(Oh, and Monty? Damn you and all your DeMolay brethren for always getting the hot Jobie chicks. ;))
Yes Andros , it is tired and trite. However, the Laden - Hussein conspiracy was repeated to me and I wanted to see if anyone else is buying it. Here in the U.S. it seems everyone has decided that, indeed, the masons are entitled to thier little corner of corruption within the community and justice system. Upon research you will discover that not everyone in the world has resigned to such. It has long been a problem in the UK that has been rebuffed again and again. It is an old topic but hey, you never know.
Well, maybe because you seem to be the one making the assertion here. 'Round these parts, those who accuse are expected to provide evidence to back up their assertions. Just another of our funny little SDMB quirks.
**
<sarcasm> As a matter of fact, I did. Y’see, we have this plan to scrape the glow in the dark stuff off of a few million watch faces and using it to make a nuclear bomb that we’ll detonate at the Elks world headquarters. Once the Elks fall, the Knights of Columbus are ripe for conquest! And then the world! Bwahahahahahaahahahahaha! </sarcasm>
Please. That hoary argument has been made by folks like Jack Chick for years. Granted, I haven’t heard the Hussein/bin Laden version of this story but it doesn’t surprise me. You might as well accuse the Masons of controlling universities because students studying geometry and drafting use squares and compasses. :rolleyes:
As for your thesis that Masons corrupt the system and twist its instutitions for the good of their relatively small number, is it the fact that there might be cases of Masons gaming the system that bothers you? If you substituted “Knights of Columbus” or “Girl Scouts” or “American Automobile Association” for “Masons” in any of your posts, would you be as inflamed?
Regarding Catholicism and Masonry, the Free and Accepted Masons are not “at odds” with the Catholic Church, at least in the United States. Catholics have never been turned away from Masonry due to their religious beliefs. While the Vatican might have had a problem with the Masons at some point, there is no religious prohibition on Catholics joining the Masons and it has never been the policy of Freemasonry to exclude Catholics.
And while I will not go into detail on this issue, I can say for sure that Masonic ceremonies are not Druidic or pagan in nature. That is, unless you consider the Old Testament to be a pagan screed. While there might be some elements that may have come into being from similar Druid or pagan ritualistic practices, take a good look at Christianity sometime. If you can point out where the risen Christ told his followers to celebrate his resurrection by painting eggs I’ll buy you a bottle of your favorite liquor.
Zappo , Maybe I am being picky here but the phrase you used is “exceptionally corrupt”. With execption to whom do you refer? As for corruption, without exception, I have supplied the cites from whence the information comes. I am not judging the corruption by comparison but just as corruption.
I most certainly would be. I do not view corruption with predjudice. Todays topic happens to be masons.
I am not, nor have I, limited the discussion to the United States. It is only recently that excommunication was lifted as sanction against catholics who fraternize with the masonic lodge.
Makers Mark please. And by God I’ll find something!
fnord