This thread has been a pretty good read. Sweet Willy, in particular, has done a fine job, although I’m not sure which job he’s been doing. Either he’s an excellent bear-baiter, or he jumped into this thread with both feet and had been backpedaling through the coals ever since.
However, fun as the “Do the Masons rule the globe by controlling the Yakusa and KFC?” issue has been, I’m curious about the tidbit that Bin Laden & Co are sending secret Masonic symbols. Can Sweet Willy or anyone else provide any info as to what this communication might have been, or is it total hokum?
Ah, I think I see the problem. See, I’m not resigned to corruption of any sort, and I think witha critical readong of the posts in this thread you’ll not find a single person who justifies it (accepts as a matter of course, perhaps, but not justifies). It’s not a matter of the masons being corrupt, it’s people. All people have the potential for corruption, reagrdless of what club they might belong to. If Joe Senator is taking bribes, whether or not he’s a Mason or an Elk or a Water Buffalo or a member of Skull and Bones is irrelevant.
In other words, no one here thinks that the Masons are “entitled” to corruption.
Well sure. And ditto for Jews. And Pakistanis and Turks and Romany and blacks. And Freemasons, and the Trilateral Commission, and any of a hundred groups. See, people with shared interests or backgrounds talk to one another, cut deals with one another. Sometimes that turns into corruption in governement or business. But it’s the fact of the shared identity that’s at issue–not the nature of the shared identity.
Probably the most prolific and respected masonic author is Albert Pike. His masterpiece " Morals and Dogma has been drawn upon heavily by the modern masonic movement, and its doctrines are today part of the fabric of modern masonary.
These are all direct quotes from Morals and Dogma.
Let’s see what Pike had to say:
Who said masonary wasn’t a religion?
Intentionally mislead? Smells like a conspiracy to me.
Masonary is not only christian.
Buddha? I bet that is a shock?
Hmm? Is he refering to the biblical Lucifer, or what?
OK. The OP; was is it possible. I heard this from a friend and he really believes it. Now, I never really thought the masons to be a particularly harmful group, hell my dad has been one for 20 years. There are at least 10 others I know well and they are mostly the pillars of the community, people I respect on a personal level. I have seen the corruption on what I have called a “petty level” and while I think it stinks, I don’t loose any sleep over it. The thing I have contemplated here is; There are masonic lodges in the mid east and all over the world. Would it be really that far out to think that a lodge in that region might help either of these important men if they are indeed members. It is a big stretch…but it sounds possible…even considerable don’t you think.
Actually, few people have ever been able to wade through Pike’s turgid prose. His influence on the Masonic movement is based on what he effected through his life, not his writings.
The preface that the Masons, themselves, place at the beginning of the work include these passages:
Pike was an amateur philospher and most of the truly odd religious statements that are usually plucked from his book are out of context and separated from his actual meaning.
For example, the “Lucifer” quotation is dragged out of a commentary in which Pike challenged the use of the name “Lucifer” when refering to Satan in various translations of the bible and in extra-biblical Christian religious works. Yet the sentences reported are always the ones he wrote in surprise that the name had been twisted.
He was also a truly horrible historian, passing on legends and suppositions as fact.
Buddha did not initiate the Masons (whose history does not extend back nearly that far, although some Masons believe it). The Masons were also not started by refugee Knights Templar, although that is another popular belief.
it is not nice for people, here, to take lines out of context, either. The quote to which you alluded is one in which the idea is put forth in the context of Pike’s views of learning that Masonic lodges would be the places where men would encourage education in support of their religion. Pike’s other comment was:
Well someone already got to the point of Christianity owing a lot to pagan and druid rituals.
I have found many conspiracy pages linking bin Laden to freemasonry but yet to find one with a legitimizing URL, or even a semi-legitimizing URL. Though it is always possible.
Both Bill Clinton and George Bush are freemasons. I found their names on freemasonry.org a long time ago, but that site is so badly designed I don’t feel like wading through it to find where they are listed. It was better designed last time I looked. If you can’t find a cite then feel free to say I’m wrong.
There is a big difference between good old boys clubs and corrupt world domination a la the Illuminati. I’m sure that Bill Clinton and George Bush belong to plenty of other organizations that include other power brokers from around the world.
Freemasonry while an amusing topic certainly does bring out people’s inner moron.
While excommunication is no longer the prescribed penalty for Catholics who become Masons, the Church’s basic position is unchanged. There was a period of confusion as to the Church’s position regarding lay membership in Masonic organizations between 1974 and 1983, mostly due to the fact that the new Code of Canon Law incorporating Vatican II changes had not yet been promulgated. This confusion ended with the promulgation of the Code in 1983, along with an explicit interpretation from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (yes, yes, the successor to the Holy Office of the Inquisition, but they really don’t burn people anymore). To quote from said document:
Here is a newsgroup posting about a recent situation involving a Catholic Freemason here in Chester County, PA.
Everyone’s not defensive about it. Apparently you are defensive about it when you get asked by other posters to provide proof of your assertions.
Because you posted demonstrably false information about Masons and when called on that, kept saying the stuff you say isn’t false.
From what you said about your father, he’s an incredibly unethical Mason and therefore should be chucked out of the fraternity.
The evidence against you shows otherwise.
No, you did not.
Incorrect. Ask any ethical Mason (excluding your father, as your description of his abuse of his membership in the fraternity shows an unethical person).
Yes, and there are examples of corruption amongst fools in government. Does that mean that I should consider you corrupt?
That is not what you asked. That is not what you did.
Actually, it can be. As I question the validity of your assertions, I am accusing you of fabricating same.
That would be an accusation, actually two, on your part towards me. It also shows that you really do despise the Masons as you used the term “offensiveness.”
As I believe you are not even passingly familiar with Truth, any further discussion I have with you on this subject shall be in the BBQ Pit.
Monty has refused to answer a simple question. Are you a mason? He has now left the conversation with out obliging us with an answer. moving along…
Interesting you should bring this up. My dad came by this evening and we had a long conversation on this subject. Explained to me how masons do “favors” for one another. He took my sisters car to have the transmission strainer and fluid changed today. The garage owner is a mason. The charge for the service is 39.95…for most of us anyway. He pays 30 even. He reports that membership is up in his lodge due to recruiting, another activity that is denied here. He had plenty to say about the guys “on the square”. He also tells me that any mason upon answering a couple secret questions may seek shelter in any lodge anywhere in the world.
MsWas , if you believe the masons to be just a good ol’ boys club you are mistaken. If you have researched this, as you say you have, you must be aware that it is the largest organization of its kind on earth with lodges across the globe.
Zappo, de nada. It was new information for me, as well. I had been under the impression that the ban on RCC members being Masons was a thing of the past, until the recent stories in the Philly Inquirer about the situation in Kennett Square. Reading this thread provided the impetus to do a little research, and that is what I shared.
Sort of OT, but given the local geographic reference I thought I would share. Chester County is an old “just outside Mainline” Philly suburb, but it also has one of the highest concentrations of Hispanics in the state. The reason is all the mushroom farms centered around the aforementioned Kennett Square; Pennsylvania accounts for over 35% of the mushrooms grown in the country. How does old money Philadelphia connect with mushrooms? Horses, or more correctly, horse byproducts. And how does that connect with the OP? I consider grand conspiracy theories, be they Jews, Illumnati, Masons, or extraterrestrial reptiles, to be so much mushroom soil.
This is really rich. The official site of Demolay. Check out the “Demolay Mania” membership drive. This is the feeder group of and by the masons. Follow the Demolay information link to the history of Demolay. It cracked me up!!
I was wondering about the demographics of Chester county when I read your original post. Seemed to me that out (here, and some other places I’ve lived) in the sticks, no one would much notice or care if a Catholic, Muslim, or Whatever became a Mason, as long as they met the conditions of believing in a supreme deity, good moral character, sponsorship etc. But I had also not known about the formal RCC ban, so certainly could be wrong about my hypothesis, too. Thoughts?
The lodge could allow him in. The way I understand it, it would be his church that gives him the cold shoulder. I haven’t seen anything anti - catholic out of the masons.
