Munch, I also thought all the recursive images on the video were some sort of manifestation of Neo’s inner thoughts. Whenever he reacted to anything the Neo’s on the different screens reacted with a range of thought, my take on it was the video monitors showed the complete range of this thoughts, not just whatever thought or emotion Neo ended up with.
It seemed to me that the screens were endlessly recursive.
pion The French guy, probably was a rogue program, although they never spelled that out, for all we know he could just be a regular human, all he actually did was claim to have programmed the slice of cake. That and his cool door trick, although that could have been set up beforehand.
Btw, his name, Merovingian, is the same name as the dynasty that preceeded the Carolinians. A google search turns up all kinds of goofy theories about how the Merovingians were Atlanteans and wacko stuff like that. A nice nod by the Warchowskis that was pretty subtle.
Just returned from seeing it. Here’s my take on it:
Architect scene. Neo clearly chooses the door that no previous version (there were Six previous Zions, so I assumed four Previous “Ones”) has chosen. The Architect comments that it’s out of love for Trinity, where all the others chose the other door out of the desire to save humanity. The Architect seems resolved that they’re all going to die this time, which is why he says “No you won’t” when Neo says “I better not see you again.”
Smith, Merovingian They were programs that ignored their instructions for deletion, and are rogues. The Oracle mention this when she was talking about ghosts and Aliens, then went on to say that Merovingian ignored his instructions b/c he wanted more power. That seemed pretty clear to me. Smith was somehow affected by Neo and now has some other properties to his rogueness, like copying himself and entering that other guy’s body.
Zion. I never got the feeling that Zion was another version of The Matrix. That can all be explained by everyone being affected by Neo’s power - the Oracle can sense him just like always b/c he’s so powerful. Smith was able to infiltrate the real world b/c he was absorbed by Neo’s power. He stopped the Sentinels b/c he’s more powerful b/c of his visit to see the Architect, or something. I think that’ll be explained in the next one. He saves Trinity b/c of the same reason.
The only thing I didn’t understand was why Neo didn’t tell everyone that Zion has existed 4 previous times? That would be a great way to help Morpheus understand that he was wrong about the prophecy…
One more question I had that I just remembered. When Neo first walks in on Seraph, he sees him as glowing yellow against the normal backdrop of green scrolling code. This shot was also in the theatrical trailer (at 2:12) and looks really weird out of context. What the heck is this supposed to represent? It’s definitely not something exhibited by all AIs (recalling the Agents at the end of The Matrix) or by all humans (recalling Trinity at the end of The Matrix Reloaded).
I think Neo did the right thing not telling Morpheus about the Architect. It was bad enough to tell him that the prophecy was misguided. Morpheus was probably ready to break down and cry when he lost his ship. Slapping, “Oh, by the way, your quest is futile and your cause is a lie.” probably wouldn’t have brightened the old man’s day.
I don’t understand much, but I have a theory on how Neo stopped the sentinals, I don’t see any reason why he even stopped them, it looked like they got fried and not just stopped like how he stops the bullets, I think it was a coincidence, and the other ship that came and rescued them just EMPed the sentinals at the same time he held up his hand. This makes the “real world” (Zion) seem more real, but I can’t explain Smith coming to the “real world”
I also thought neo chose the same door all the other ‘Ones’ chose even if it was for a different reason this time.
WHY CAN NEO DO THE SUPERMAN THING OUTSIDE THE MATRIX?
Matrix nestled inside another? Don’t think so. Too trite and cliched.
I actually think one of two things has occurred.
a) the symbiotic relationship alluded to by Smith (or at least the creation of an exchange of some ambiguous sort) actually cuts both ways. While Smith can suddenly do new things and be seperate from the Matrix programming, perhaps Neo can now operate on a different level outside the matrix. This could be from something inadvertantly given to him by Smith or just a by-product of the ‘new’ (post-death-and-smith-interaction) Neo. On this note I also worry that the Oracle’s ramblings combined with Smith’s new existence outisde of normal programming is leading towards the need for co-operation between man and machine for both to survive. Especially when you also factor in the councillor’s comments on a similar line.
b) That mankind has the ability to tap into more than we usually do. That we are indeed capable of performing at higher than we do and possibly even doing things considered superhuman. Larry W is a big Neitschze fan and I seem to recall him also stating a belief (after the first matrix film) that we are all vessels of untapped potential. Sadly I can’t find the reference yet. But I contend that Neo, now awakened fully suddenly realises he can ‘feel’ and know things he shouldn’t in the real world. Hence his effort to stop the sentinels. Why’d he collapse? Shock? Exhaustion at using unfamiliar powers (similar to soreness in using muscles you don’t normally use)? This theory also emphasises hope and redemption for all.
I also now wonder about the Animatrix that featured the runner who tapped into potential subconsciously. I have to admit I thought it the worst of the shorts (great concept but poorly done) but in light of the kid who woke up appearing here and Neo’s Clark Kent imitation I can’t help but question if they were hinting and it’ll look good in retrospect following Revolutions.
AS FOR THE NEO’S ON THE SCREEN…
…I just took it as a nice ‘quantum interface’ highlighting his multiple thoughts and choices available to him. Especially sine the divergences didn’t start until after the arch.'s line about Neo having so many thoughts.
Oh and as for the anomaly explanation - I read it as thus:
The first matrix failed because humans rejected perfection. The current one works because people believe the good and bad and have the choice or at least the illusion of choice in their lives. But to a machine/program there’s only ever one logical decision after weighing up the alternatives. So considering your options and then not necessarily doing the MOST logical is difficult for them to comprehend (an anomaly of sorts).
<insert waffle about emotion overriding logic and making us distinct from the machines>
The ability to make this choice could conceivably throw the programming at some point (or points) as it could often force an occurence outside of programming or unforeseen action/consequence.
It all comes down to choice. I don’t think he was just referring to the choice of the two doors - he was also referring to why the 0.01% (or whatever it was) represent a glitch. Humans always have choices.
Oh and as for the anomaly explanation - I read it as thus:
The first matrix failed because humans rejected perfection. The current one works because people believe the good and bad and have the choice or at least the illusion of choice in their lives. But to a machine/program there’s only ever one logical decision after weighing up the alternatives. So considering your options and then not necessarily doing the MOST logical is difficult for them to comprehend (an anomaly of sorts).
<insert waffle about emotion overriding logic and making us distinct from the machines>
The ability to make this choice could conceivably throw the programming at some point (or points) as it could often force an occurence outside of programming or unforeseen action/consequence.
It all comes down to choice. I don’t think he was just referring to the choice of the two doors - he was also referring to why the 0.01% (or whatever it was) represent a glitch. Humans always have choices.
-The Ghosts were cool. Really cool. The Bros. did a great job at working that in.
-Why didn’t Neo do the odd little ‘jump inside someone’ on some of his foes?
-The ‘Matrix within a Matrix’ idea is one that I never considered. Now that I have, it makes sense, which means it probably isn’t true. The idea has potential for a MIBII-esque ending, revealing a near-infinite layering of ‘Matrixes’ Matrii.
-Women in Zion favor see-through tops. Huzzah for Zion!
Ummm…was I the ONLY one thinking, “DAMN I want a piece of THAT cake!” ???
Neo’s plugs were not being removed in the original film. They were being CLEANED AND CHECKED…sort of a diagnostics thing.
Anyone else deduce that they’re probably aren’t any condoms in Zion. Can you say “The One, Jr.”?
If I remember correctly: When Neo asked the architect if the Oracle was the “mother” of the Matrix, Architect replied “Puh-leese” (or something to that affect). So I ask: what other “she” could be the mother of the matrix?
Mr. Smith plot: okay, so he stabbed into a guy and entered the ‘real’ world. Is it safe to say that since he has mass-produced himself in the Matrix, he has done the same in the ‘real’ world…but in the ‘real’ world has simply taken on the appearance of everyone he has ‘stabbed’?
Oh and I think that you all might be on to something with the ‘ZionMatrix’…
I think Revolutions is coming out in December, and I’d assume that the DVD would come out slightly before then in order to whip up anticipation for it.
On the official website , there’s a picture of a car licence plate (from the behind-the-scenes pictures of the filming of the city chase). The plate number is AL 887, and the title of the photo is “Do you see significance in this number?” Frankly, I don’t, and a Google search doesn’t turn up anything. Does this mean anything to anybody? Also, in the May 15 entry of the News section, there’s the following cryptic message:
"THE MATRIX: RELOADED covers a lot of ground. The future brings sections on visual effects, the ships, the creatures, the stunts, and much more. All things evolve. For those that understand this, perhaps the following will be understood.
0xA3B1A428 (although if you don’t highlight it, you’ll only see Ox A428 - Gila)
For the above hex, you will need a fairly fast computer and graphics card. An appreciation of the Neb is not a prerequisite (but it helps). "
Is this something written in hexidecimal, which I don’t read? Any guesses as to meaning?
Neo didn’t bring the subject up, the Architect did. Actually, the Architect said (paraphrased) “If I am the father of the Matrix, then she [The Oracle] could be condsidered its mother”. In other words, the Architect flat out said that the Oracle was the mother of the Matrix. He wasn’t talking about any other “she”.
Upon plugging A3B1A428 into the calculator function on my computer, I come up with 2,746,328,104. I have no idea what the Ox part might mean, but I never got beyond calculus 2, and I 've forgotten most everything beyond algebra.
I remember who initiated the topic, Joe Random , and how it went. I did a poor paraphrase…sorry. Since you remember the conversation so well, can you confirm that Architect DID blow Neo off when he asked “is it the Oracle?” I’m sure I didn’t imagine that. Now, I may have misunderstood him (Architect)…but I did hear him correctly.
What the heck happened to Tank? he seemed fairly ok at the end of the first movie, but from what i got from link’s wife (their sister?) Tank and Dozer both died… that kinda sucks
Deva, Now I’m going to have to see movie again, as if I wasn’t already going to, but my impression was that the Architect was implying that the Oracle was the “mother” of the matrix, but when Neo called her an oracle, that is when he laughed.
This could be taken either that both the Architect and the Oracle are meta-programs, i.e. there are nested matrices and they are conscious in a higher level matrix than the ‘real world’ that Neo knows. Or he is simply belittling her, simply mocking her ‘oracular’ powers, perhaps because being a machine, he doesn’t beleive in things that can’t be programmed or can’t be directly observed.
theendisnear: Tank ran into something far worse than an Agent. He wanted to much money and was simply written out.
