Wow, I really did not set out to offend anyone or get scolded by the moderator so soon. Oops. I have a question. My intent was to print the post so the members of my group could read them. I did not request the board to serve as a consultant. The question asked if anyone had participated in writing a vision statement for an organization and if so, what should I expect? The intent of the question was to begin a discussion about the process of writing a vision statement and to look at how a vision statement might impact the future of an organization.
The information I wanted to share with my group was not going to be “published” or “reposted”. I believe my actions are perfectly ethical and proper, unless it is wrong to print these posts for someone else to read. I hope you can help me understand how I have offended or caused the moderator to “close the thread”. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Sorry. How did this end up here. I was in the BBQ pit to make this post then I went back to read my last post and ended up posting in the wrong spot. I know this thread should be in the BBQ Pit. I apologize. And can you move it? Thanks.
Quetions about this message board belong in ATMB so I expect this will get moved there shortly… or maybe the Pit. At any rate. a private email to the mod would heve been better. You might want to read the rules, FAQ etc.
I had a quick look at that thread and I am not quite sure what or if you might have done wrong or even what exactly was your aim. (As I say, I just skimmed over it.) It really does not matter. Don;t take it personally and it does not mean you did anything “wrong” or reproachable.
In general terms I think it makes sense if you hang around and read threads and see how the borad is run and how things are done. Generally, as in any place, it is better if you observe for a while. I think most of us do not like to be used in the sense that some new person registers, starts a thread for some partuicular purpose and disappears never to be seen again. This is a community where we expect people to contribute.
I can tell you I personally do not like it when some outsider comes in and says “help me prove I am right on topic X” and, after we spend some time discussing the topic, that person never returns, even to say thank you. It makes me feel used, dirty _
It is better to start slowly, contribute to ongoing threads, get the feel for the place, take your time.
At any rate, don;t take it personally. Whatever your sin was, the mods are forgiving (have you read the part in the FAQ about how they prefer cash to worthless presents?). 
Again, welcome to the board.
Thanks Sailor. I will take your advice and just hang out for some time. I can understand how people might feel used. However, there is great benefit to being useful. I suppose I should have at first stated what my intent was. But, I wll follow your advice. I did email MEBUCKNER on the isssue. I was not aware that it was improper to print the posts for others to read, as long as the sources were cited. I am interested in finding out if I was planning to do something illegal or unethical or improper. So… if you have thought about that please share them. Thanks again for your kind words.
I don’t see what you did wrong either.
After reading this is had a look at the bottom of the page.
If what you did was wrong, then I strongly suggest that the Reader change their statement at the bottom of the page and turn off the “Show printable version” button.
jacksen9
I’m a liitle surprised by the moderator action here as well, but I chalk it up with a lack of experience in enforcing the “coyright rule”. After all it is rarely if ever infringed, and MEBUCKNER is relatively new at this job.
Publishing and reposting on the internet are two ways of providing an alternate source of SD material to the general public. Copying material for a highschool discussion group is does not fit that bill.
If it did, they might as well remove all the copier machines from the high school/university libraries of the country. They are obviously intended for coyright infringements
:rolleyes:
Link: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=106686
Of course if my objection is contrary to the SDMB administration policy regardless, then I stand corrected.
I suspect that a couple of things irritated **MEBuckner ** about hte original thread. I mention these not to make you feel bad, but just as guidelines for the future (and note, I’m nobody around here, so this is in no way official)
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It was in the wrong forum. This isn’t a mortal sin, but the only way a board as enourmous as this one functions is by strictly enforcing forum catagories, and moderators gte tired about moving them. This is why lurking is so useful: it gives you a much better idea of what goes where. GD is usually for real debates, and hte debate needs to be in the OP: if you had said “My ideal high school is a charter school” or “My ideal high school stresses the idea of prayer” or anything like that, it would have bee na GD. As it was, you were just looking for a survey of opinions, so that goes in In My Humble Opinion.
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The whole “trick” thing. Cutsey stuff like when you reveal your motive for wanting the information only later never, ever goes over well here. Once again, this isn’t something you could know if you weren’t used to hanging out here.
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There is a wide spread sentiment here at the SDMB that we don’t do other people’s homework. You should see some of the summeries of important novels we have given to unsuspecting students. Whether or not you meant it to, your second post made it seem like you wanted us to do your homework. Had you podted “These are the things I think should be in a high school vision statement (list list list), what do you think?” I am sure you would have gotton a nice discussion. The fact that you just asked “What do you think?” without ponying up your own contribution looks like (though it probably isn’t) you expect us to spend the time thinking and orginizing our own thoughts, but you can’t be bothered to do the same.
On a side note, i want to point out that the advice you got would have been much more on target if you had been upfront about your goal from the beginning: most of us gave very action oriented responses (I, myself, LOATHE vauge vision-statement type things). If I had any advice for your project at all, it would be that every “clause in your Vison statement” be accompanied by three practical, conctrete steps that can be taken by every teacher every day to achieve that goal. Without that, vison statements are just ways to let poor teahcers and administrators feel like they are doing something.
I agree with your take, but I am not convinced that it is correct. I act on the assumption that it is perfectly legal and proper to print and or copy something for someone else to read, as long as you cite the source…and as long as it is not sold. But, maybe I am wrong on this. If so, I hope someone will set me straight. The small print at the bottom says no “reposting” or “publishing”. I guess printing could be considered as “reposting”. IMO, reposting refers to getting this info and posting it on another message board. My intention is to get this sorted out before tomorrow. I suppose I should just proceed without printing or copying anything. I just finished reading some interestiing posts regarding the most wothless classes in high school. There are several posts in the thread that I think might provide interesting discussion points. But, I am reluctant to use them due to the actions of mebuckner. In addition, I want to act in a way that is proper, and ethical. So…any experts out there about this issue. I ask for your feedback.
Manda Jo
I was a bit shocked by the quantity and quality of the responses the thread received. I consider myself to be somewhat of a public servant, so, soliciting opinions from board members seemed like a good idea. I mean, how can you serve the public if you don’t know what they think? You are correct about being more candid and direct about my motives. Honestly, it did not occur to me that I might want to share the posts with the members of my group. That is until after I read them. Then I thought wow, some of this stuff is really interesting. Some of it was funny. My motive was certainly not to have someone “do my homework”. Believe it or not, I have enjoyed all steps in this visioning process. All of it has been good, even being scolded by the moderator…hehe.
In my defense…I could see the wrong in asking for an outright vision statement and then using that. However, surveying opinions in order to get a picture of what others think the ideal high school would look like seems right.
Others in my group seem a wee bit cynical regarding this visioning exercise. This is why I asked if anyone had participated in this type of activity before. I am wondering if I am being too idealistic and liking this too much. Sometimes I get carried away and I wanted to hear stories about how vision statements inspired others and changed the culture of organizations. Anyway…thanks for the response.
IANAL, but I’ve always thought that making paper copies of written material and distributing them on a large or small scale was a pretty well described with the word “publishing”, rather than “reposting”.
jacksen9, please don’t take umbrage at this question, and feel free to ignore it if you find it too intrusive. Are you in fact a teacher? I ask because nothing you’ve written so far has ruled out the possibility that you are a student representative on some type of working group assigned to this task.
I don’t think I got my point across here: one of the attitudes that makes a message board works is that everybody opens them selvesup to being critiqued. You never told us what you think an ideal high school should be like. It seems like there are three possible reasons for that:
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It’s too much of a pain in the butt to type it all out (which looks like you are asking us to do something you wouldn’t do oyurself)
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You don’t have the slightest idea what the ideal high school would look like, and you are asking others to give you ideas from the ground up (which is doing your homework for you)
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You have ideas, but you are afraid that all the brilliant, witty, erudite people here will rip you a new one if you post them. (In which case, welcome to the club. We all fear that everytime we post, and if you want to get really good responses here, you have to take the risk along with the rest of us).
Ahhhhhh, ya faddah’s moustache!
Here’s what the staff was thinking (at least some of us; despite theories to the contrary, we are not one many-headed hydra, we each have different opinions.)
We definitely do not want people to use the board for marketing research. e.g. “go listen to the album at this link, and report back to us what you think/how it should be improved.” That is very close to using the board for your own personal financial gain, and also somewhat akin to “spamming” IMHO.
We also do not like people to use the board for “experiments”. e.g. “I’m going to post this fake story to see how people react.” We do not like the members of the board to be treated as guinea pigs.
This case, after I read the OP in the Great Debates forum, seems to me to be very close to the “marketing research” type of post mentioned in the first paragraph. “I need to do research on a certain subject, and so I am going to go to a message board to do my research for this proposal I have to present at work.” We are especially wary when the person is someone brand new to the boards that attempts to “use” the posters in such a fashion.
There have been abuses of this kind of situation in the past, and once bitten, twice shy.
To add to what Manda Jo said - a more appropriate post in the “Great Debates” forum would have been “Here’s what I think an ideal high school would be. Am I right or wrong?”
Asking people’s opinions would be more suitable to the “In My Humble Opinion” forum. But the caveat about not using the SDMB for “market research” still applies.
A couple of things I forgot to say - MEBuckner did not just pop off and decide to close the thread. He asked other staff members what we thought of it.
Why did I mention that “we are more suspicious when a brand-new poster does this?” An analogy - if my friend calls me and asks “Do you like the Hyundai Elantra better than the Nissan Altima” I’ll take the time to give him my opinion. But if someone I don’t know calls me and asks “We would like to take a few minutes of your time to ask you a few questions about the Hyundai Elantra vs. the Nissan Altima” I’m going to think “telemarketer”. Does this help explain the difference?
With that being said, jacksen9 has been very polite and I am not accusing him/her of any bad behaviour.
Gee, how long do I have to post, here, before somebody clues me in to what I’m supposed to fear?
Nobody ever tells me nothin’. I’m always the last to get the word. You guys have been letting me post all this time without letting me know how much trouble I’m in? yeeesh!
OK, another things that seems to annoy a set (though this is in no way a universal descripion) of dopers is universal descriptions of dopers. I should have said:
“Many dopers, or at least I, am nervous about having all the brilliant, witty, erudite posters rip me a new one.”
Well, it looks like my esteemed colleague Arnold Winkelreid has (with the help of some of our members) explained what I was thinking much better than I did. There’s no copyright problem with printing a thread and passing it on to others (or to directing others to the web site to read it on-line); but we don’t want our board spammed and our members conscripted as unpaid labor by people doing “marketing research” and that type of thing. There’s a difference between someone spamming our board that way, and someone starting a thread saying “We’re writing this ‘mission statement’ at work–what are y’all’s opinions on the topic?”
I’m sorry your introduction to the board has been a bit rough. Welcome to the SDMB.
Actually, I’d have put that exchange under the heading of “straight lines that some people cannot pass up” rather than “things that seems to annoy.” YMMV