I think I have decided that this is my favorite Pit Thread ever. Der Trihs, you’ve clinched it. Still, I have the unsettling feeling that something is missing…
While I find the possibility that meenie is talking to a ghost extremely unlikely, there are other shades of grey between ‘‘crazy’’ and ‘‘liar.’’ For example, she might know an actual person who believes he is a ghost. Or, as someone mentioned many pages ago, she may be the victim of an elaborate practical joke. But bearing these less likely possibilities in mind, Occam’s razor yields the inevitable conclusion that meenie is Adolf Hitler.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
Yeah, yeah, ah hominem, vitriol, vitrol, ad homenem. Wow, that’s a convincing argument you’ve got going there. I’m sure if you keeep it up we “retards” will abandon our understanding of how science actually works and join your frothing side.
Fact: science would have to define ghosts to assert they didn’t exist. That they don’t should be a clue.
[/quote]
Nothing has to be asserted or proven not to exist, dumbshit. It’s the default presumption. If you want to even assert that something called a “ghost” is even possible,YOU have to define what you’re talking about. As far as science is concerned, “ghost” is just a nonsense word like “glurp” or “schnork.” Can you prove schnorks don’t exist. i guess they mist be “possible” then.
I can tell you that whatever does exist must have properties which obey the laws of physics, and the conception of “ghosts” as they are usually presented in popular fancy do not conform to physical laws, ergo they are physically impossible and may be safely dismissed out of hand as an explanatory hyothesis for anything, especially since thewy would explain nothing which can’t already be explained by purely natural causes.
Meenie does not have a ghost friend. I’m not being unreasonable for stating the fucking obvious.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
Okay: real world fact: Science has not disproven ghosts. Hell, it can’t even find the things. Therefore persons who lean on science to claim that they know ghosts aren’t real are at best mistaken and at worst full of shit. Science doesn’t know that ghosts aren’t real any more than it knew that there was no such thing as quarks in 250 BCE.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
You’ll often hear skeptics say, “There’s no scientific evidence of ghosts.” That’s not true – there’s MOUNTAINS of evidence. Entire cultures have been built around the existence of ghosts. Our current modern society is something of an anomaly, in that the rational person isn’t supposed to harbor a belief in ghosts. And yet, ghost stories abound. Just look at that original paranormal thread – LOTS of people have experienced ghost-like encounters, ranging from a vague, disquieting sensation to Sampiro’s way creepy Aunt Kitty story!
Only problem is…virtually all of this evidence is anecdotal. And somewhere along the line, the skeptics decided that anecdotal evidence doesn’t count. Instead, they demand hard, cold facts – observations that can be detected by instruments and repeated in a laboratory setting. Well…it’s a fair cop, I suppose. But just because no such facts have been observed yet doesn’t mean they never will. It’s very, very likely that we’re just looking in the wrong place.
All I can say for sure is – IF spirits, ghosts, and demons really exist, they are bound by the laws of science just like everything else in spacetime. And once those laws are understood, then ghosts and spirits will become as mundane as the malaria bacterium or the Higgs Boson. These manifestations will cease to be paranormal and just become, well, “normal”.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I’m not being unreasonable for stating the fucking obvious.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, give it a rest already, Diogen! Have you bothered to read the responses so far? YOU are the one being dogpiled here. And just so we’re clear, it has nothing to do with your disbelief in ghosts, and everything to do with the fact that you’re acting like a total asshole.
For cripes’ sake, even begbert2 is urging you to knock it off. That fact alone should tell you something.
[QUOTE=KGS]
And once those laws are understood, then ghosts and spirits will become as mundane as the malaria bacterium or the Higgs Boson.
[/QUOTE]
That’s an odd one to bring up. As far as i understand it the Higgs Boson is far from mundane and, as yet, unproven, though this may change soon.
[QUOTE=KGS]
You’ll often hear skeptics say, “There’s no scientific evidence of ghosts.” That’s not true – there’s MOUNTAINS of evidence. Entire cultures have been built around the existence of ghosts. Our current modern society is something of an anomaly, in that the rational person isn’t supposed to harbor a belief in ghosts. And yet, ghost stories abound. Just look at that original paranormal thread – LOTS of people have experienced ghost-like encounters, ranging from a vague, disquieting sensation to Sampiro’s way creepy Aunt Kitty story!
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think you quite have a solid grasp of the concept of evidence.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Oh, give it a rest already, Diogen! Have you bothered to read the responses so far? YOU are the one being dogpiled here. And just so we’re clear, it has nothing to do with your disbelief in ghosts, and everything to do with the fact that you’re acting like a total asshole.
For cripes’ sake, even begbert2 is urging you to knock it off. That fact alone should tell you something.
[/QUOTE]
I’m only being piled by a handful of idiots. I’m not being an asshole and I’m not wrong. Now fuck off and go worship your pyramids or whatever you woo woos do.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Oh, give it a rest already, Diogen! Have you bothered to read the responses so far? YOU are the one being dogpiled here. And just so we’re clear, it has nothing to do with your disbelief in ghosts, and everything to do with the fact that you’re acting like a total asshole.
For cripes’ sake, even begbert2 is urging you to knock it off. That fact alone should tell you something.
[/QUOTE]
Meh, we’re all being dogpiled out here. I have at leaast three against me, DtC has at least three against him, the same goes for you…
And all the anectotal evidence in favor of ghosts so far is crap. Period. The hole that DtC and Der Trish are digging themselves is that they’re making their own factual claim aboud science, which is provably false.
Oh, and also in DtC’s case, acting like a dick. When he starts mistaking me for a True Believer, you know that he’s abandoned rational thought and is merely venting rage from his primal hindbrain.
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
Leaving a longtime lurking hiatus for a “driveby”… I’ve been following this thread with great interest!
Ok here’s my completely unscientific feeling of what’s going on here:
90 % Meenies bullshitting us for 9 pages running (it’s pretty obvious by this point isn’t it?).
9,99999 % Meenies got serious mental or health problems and need to get professional help.
< .000001 % Ghosts actually exists; Campuses are full of them like hogwarths, but with glowing eyes and cold hands & Meenies the little boy from 6th sense.
**I’d also take a wild guess that Meenies got a head full of fantasies of being quirky like that girl from Amelie or that resurrected one from Pushing Dasies or whatnot and kind of feels that for a girl it’s actually alright to pathologically tell lies cause you know girls can do that if they are just polite & sweet.
Jerking her along we got the alliance of the internet dudes with hand on dick in pant; the hopeless romantics & the new agers; and the ones that can’t help feeling fatherly or motherly towards a seemingly vulnerable girl thats polite and sweet and therefore think normal rules don’t apply.**
Meanwhile Meenie sucks up the attention.
DtC may not have been a master of tact and consideration at all times in this thread but since he obviously feels strongly about these issues and argues his beliefs with complete honesty and seriousness I can certainly see where his frustration is coming from.
Meenie: it’s been entertaining & in the case of the 10 % alternative(s) - hope i didn’t hurt your feelings and the best of luck.
[/QUOTE]
You should post more, I think that about sums up my thoughts. The bolded part especially, well put.
Is there anybody who would object to saying it was impossible for to fly by flapping my arms? What is the difference in “possibility” between that and ghosts?
Regardless of the technicality that science never proves anything absolutely, some things are still so astronomically implausible that they can be practically dismissed in the real world as impossible. It is technically possible that two people could have the same fingerprints, but it’s such an infinitessimally small possibility that it won’t do you any good in court.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
(And if Der Trihs thinks his response applies to me, then he really hasn’t been paying attention. :))
[/QUOTE]
It does. You are taking a view of “science” and proof which has only one “virtue” - it can be used to pretend that religion is intellectually respectable. It’s a viewpoint that people never actually use unless they are trying to excuse foolish beliefs.
As Diogenes just said, who would object to someone saying it’s impossible to fly by flapping your arms ? It’s only when religion or similar baseless beliefs become involved that these special rules get hauled out.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I don’t think you quite have a solid grasp of the concept of evidence.
[/QUOTE]
Enlighten me, then?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Is there anybody who would object to saying it was impossible for to fly by flapping my arms?
[/QUOTE]
Seems like this type of experiment is eminently testable. Why not try it yourself? I hear the parking lot of the local mental hospital is a perfect place for a controlled environment. Make sure you film it and put it on YouTube, though.
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson]
Leaving a longtime lurking hiatus for a “driveby”… I’ve been following this thread with great interest!
Ok here’s my completely unscientific feeling of what’s going on here:
90 % Meenies bullshitting us for 9 pages running (it’s pretty obvious by this point isn’t it?).
9,99999 % Meenies got serious mental or health problems and need to get professional help.
< .000001 % Ghosts actually exists; Campuses are full of them like hogwarths, but with glowing eyes and cold hands & Meenies the little boy from 6th sense.
I’d also take a wild guess that Meenies got a head full of fantasies of being quirky like that girl from Amelie or that resurrected one from Pushing Dasies or whatnot and kind of feels that for a girl it’s actually alright to pathologically tell lies cause you know girls can do that if they are just polite & sweet.
Jerking her along we got the alliance of the internet dudes with hand on dick in pant; the hopeless romantics & the new agers; and the ones that can’t help feeling fatherly or motherly towards a seemingly vulnerable girl thats polite and sweet and therefore think normal rules don’t apply.
Meanwhile Meenie sucks up the attention.
DtC may not have been a master of tact and consideration at all times in this thread but since he obviously feels strongly about these issues and argues his beliefs with complete honesty and seriousness I can certainly see where his frustration is coming from.
Meenie: it’s been entertaining & in the case of the 10 % alternative(s) - hope i didn’t hurt your feelings and the best of luck.
[/QUOTE]
Bravo, SherwoodAnderson. I agree with almost everything you said, but shrink your 10% considerably. And the alliance of internet dudes with hand on dick in pant will not soon be forgotten. They deserve a lot more blame around here than they get, and not just in this thread.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Is there anybody who would object to saying it was impossible for to fly by flapping my arms? What is the difference in “possibility” between that and ghosts?
[/QUOTE]
We understand a lot more, scientifically, about arms and the air they’re in than in spirits and the woo-woo spirualist theoretical plane they supposedly inhabit. So there’s a lot more scientific backing for positive assertions about arms’ non-aerodynamic nature. (With ghosts, science has only made negative assertions about specific claims.)
But, nonetheless, if somebody claimed to be able to fly by flapping their arms, I wouldn’t believe them but would be willing to let them try and demonstrate it. They’d only get one fail though. Per applicant. So in that way it’s exactly the same.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Regardless of the technicality that science never proves anything absolutely, some things are still so astronomically implausible that they can be practically dismissed in the real world as impossible. It is technically possible that two people could have the same fingerprints, but it’s such an infinitessimally small possibility that it won’t do you any good in court.
[/QUOTE]
Unless somebody showed up claiming to have two people with exactly identical fingerprints - then you’d be a fool to announce they were lying or delusional without first testing them. And the equivalent claim regarding ghosts would be…
Of course, we can’t test anything persuasively over a web forum. So does that mean we leap to our preferred conclusion, on an assumption that’s being explicitly called directly into question? Well, you can, but don’t expect us to tell you that’s the scientific approach.
Ha ha ha! Dude, you twit, I’m always on your side in the religion threads!
And some of us live by the recognition that science is by nature a hard agnostic system. Not many of us - many people lack the education.
What would make meenie so special, if there are, in fact, such a thing as ghosts? Out of the millions of people that die every year, on top of all the animals that perish as well, why would only a handful stick around? If ‘Marcus’ has no trouble, whatsoever, experiencing our world, and interacting with meenie, what’s to stop thousands of others interacting with the rest of the population at large? It should be damn near common, shouldn’t it?
[QUOTE=cmyk]
What would make meenie so special, if there are, in fact, such a thing as ghosts? Out of the millions of people that die every year, on top of all the animals that perish as well, why would only a handful stick around? If ‘Marcus’ has no trouble, whatsoever, experiencing our world, and interacting with meenie, what’s to stop thousands of others interacting with the rest of the population at large? It should be damn near common, shouldn’t it?
Or do I have to have a ghost gland?
[/QUOTE]
Pheh, if we’re going to entertain the idea that Marcus isn’t imaginary, then it’s quite easy to invent a fictional backstory that explains it adequetley enough.
I’m currently favoring “God kept Marcus around specifically to arrange for this scenario to dick with DtC.”
