How did you reach the decision that you were qualified to give therapy over a message board?
QFT 
It’s common knowledge in the psychiatric industry. Here’s a cite from the New York Times Health Guide:
Not surprisingly, you are misrepresenting your cite, which is the first one that came up when I Googled it, and I was just waiting for you to post it. Cognitive function stabilizes after the initial deterioration of first onset. That means, unlike progressive illnesses such as Alzheimers, the person’s physical disease plateaus at a certain point. This does not mean they are better or that they are not ill or in need of treatment. An improvement over full-blown psychosis is not a cure. Schizophrenia cannot, in fact, be cured. What is more likely to happen than some sort of full remission (remission =/= recovery either btw) in an actual schizophrenic, especially one who has never received treatment, is substance abuse or suicide. Bu you knew that, because that too is common knowledge in the psychiatric industry.
But again, this is a hijack, your specialty. No one is qualified to say that meenie is a schizophrenic over the internet, and I’m not sure that anyone actually has. If she is, and people like you are discouraging her from getting checked out, you are most definitely not helping her. IMO, your strident claims about mental illness are quite appalling, especially considering the fact that you are probably not saying it out of genuine concern for her but because you’re so entrenched in arguing against Diogenes et al. That’s pretty fucked up and not compassionate, since compassion is your big buzzword.
I misrepresent nothing. Indeed, I direct your attention to the emphasized portion of your quote above, which (surprise, surprise) supports exactly what I was saying: neither Meenie7 nor Lute are getting any worse. Meenie, in particular, described her symptoms four years ago, and her so-called “delusion” has not changed at all during that time. Nor has she described ANY other major symptoms (irrational thoughts, self-destructive behavior, suicidal ideation, etc…sorry, social isolation doesn’t count as a major symptom.) Therefore, seeking a psychiatrist is NOT an urgent matter. What leads you to ASSUME that she (and Lute) are on the brink of getting worse? Neither of us is in a position to ASSUME anything. To ASSUME the worst is blatant ignorance and fearmongering – after all, it makes an ASS out of U and ME.
Of course I know that. I also know, from first-hand experience, that seeking a psychiatrist can make things worse.
Nor is anyone qualified to say that Meenie7 requires medical attention RIGHT NOW. And yet, that’s what’s been going on for the last 13 fucking pages. For Christ’s sake, people are talking about brain tumors and shit. :rolleyes:
Nobody’s discouraging her from doing anything. If I’m wrong, show me an example.
You wouldn’t know compassion if it crawled up your rectal tube and died. And if you did notice, you’d yank it out of your ass, put a floppy hat on it, and call it a Straw Man. :rolleyes:
But they’re not getting any better and could get worse at any time if they are in fact schizophrenic, which I don’t know. Lute has been diagnosed and knows what’s up with himself. Meenie, however, has no idea what’s really going on by her own admission, and thus, continuing in ignorance seems like a really bad idea and possibly dangerous. Mental illness is not the only option. Neurological illness is also possible. If she’s not lying, well, she has several positive symptoms of psychosis. Get it checked out. That’s what I’d say to a friend or loved one who told me the same story that meenie did.
Are you a doctor? Have you examined her? How do you know what’s really going on with her? If she is not lying about the whole thing, I fail to see how a doctor visit is a bad idea. Go to a fucking GP and let him refer you if you’re so against a shrink.
It’s amazing how you can speak with such authority on subjects about which you know amazingly little. You know for a fact that it’s not an urgent matter? REALLY? I don’t know for a fact that anything’s wrong with her, but I’d rather err on the side of caution, wouldn’t you? Or are you so invested in your rhetorical point that you’ll keep insisting on this?
Cite that I assumed that.
Going to the doctor and describing your symptoms is assuming the worst? Straw man much? You’re the one who’s assuming, that she doesn’t need medical attention, that it’s not urgent, that she has no other symptoms. I assume nothing not in evidence: she’s thinks she’s talking to a ghost. Ghosts don’t exist. She swears she’s not lying or making it up but can’t explain it. Therefore, get checked out and rule out illness. I see no flaw in my chain of logic, no fear mongering, no lack of compassion. Please point out where those qualities you claim reside without making an ad hominem attack on me or changing the subject. I bet you can’t do it.
So your main problem is that you don’t think she needs to do it RIGHT NOW? That’s worth calling people names, making unwarranted assumptions, and being a shrill moron for several pages? Wow, that’s a thin point to fight for so vitriolically at this point, don’t you think?
Wow, that is so disingenuous it’s unbelievable. I don’t see how you can credibly say you haven’t discouraged her from seeking medical care. “You don’t need to go right now, wait and see if you get worse, it’s not urgent, you just have an overactive imagination, what’s the problem?” That’s discouraging someone to get help and I think it’s wrong.
Straw man? The only one of those has been constructed by you. Because, see, you’re totally fucking wrong. You don’t know me, you have no evidence whatsoever for saying such a thing to me, except to be a dick to someone who disagrees with you, and has done it pretty politely compared to your nastiness. You really have absolutely nothing credible to say and you’re so entrenched in defending your point of view that you don’t even know what it is anymore. You are a poor debater and a waste of time. Attack me personally some more, please. It only highlights that, as I said earlier, you’ve got nothin’.
Oh, and if this shit ain’t fearmongering, I don’t know what is.
I really hope that Meenie’s receiving royalties for this thread by now.
It’s not fearmongering if you know what you’re talking about.
I’ve seen firsthand the destruction that can be caused by misdiagnosis and unnecessary medication. I will grant, psychiatry can be a useful tool when somebody has a real problem; but like any tool, it is downright dangerous when applied inappropriately. Especially when the person DOESN’T have a problem, because there are shrinks out there who will MAKE it a problem. Check the links, read the stories, talk to anyone who has witnessed a loved one freak out because they were given the wrong medication. Hell, you probably see these stories on the news all the time – stop and listen to them. Or, you can settle in your cozy chair and read your peer-approved medical journals and impress everyone with your highfalutin’ erudition, but until you get down deep in the trenches like I have, you will never know what it’s like. You will never know.
But the thing is, you don’t. Those cites are bullshit, and I’m glad your real agenda here has finally come out. And, no, it’s not compassion for meenie.
You have read my words. You can’t unread them. You may be too distracted now to recognize the truth, but someday something will happen to you that will make you realize, “Wow! KGS was right.” And if not you, it will happen to someone else who has bothered to read this far. They say if you can change one person’s mind, it was worth the effort.
Besides, everyone has an agenda. Care to share yours?
That will probably be the same day they prove ghosts exists. Give it time…
Look, can we get real and admit that nobody has “compassion for meenie” in this apparently endless woo-woo/skeptic proxy war? (Nor is any appropriate, as I’m sure she’s merely watching and giggling, fingertip pressing a coy Shirleytemplesque dimple into one rosy cheek.)
And while this wouldn’t necessarily be a symptom of a massive brain tumor, I’d definitely have it checked out, especially if the delusion persisted…
Oh my god, KGS, it’s like you’ve been shooting yourself in the foot with a .22 over and over again in this thread. But with that above quote, it seems to me you’ve just crammed the barrel of a Howitzer in your mouth. The bottom line is that you (who, with your nutbag consipiracy/fearmongering links about ECT and drug therapy–all totally irrelevant to this discussion, and ISTM sets you up as having too much baggage to objectively speak to any of this) are saying meenie is fine, has no problem, and doesn’t warrant psych (or any other) help.
I’m speechless. And then you go on to claim you’re not discouraging her!
Ruby, you have a gift for arguing. Keep up the good fight, although it seems KGS is too far gone to reason with.
I admit that I have an agenda. You’ll find it at the top of this page, right after the words “THE STRAIGHT DOPE”.
I tend to agree with that because, if Meenie7’s description is true, in the years since Marcus appeared a brain tumor is likely to have killed her. OTOH, hallucinations and delusions can be two of the more pleasant symptoms of psychosis. She should look into this, but she doesn’t seem inclined to either ask for help or share her experiences with any real-life people except one person who is conveniently too far away to force an intervention.
Under ideal conditions, that would pretty much be the end of it. For some reason, though, Dio seems to take personal offense at her willingness to protect and preserve the delusion, and at those of us who don’t share his sense of offense. Couple that with a veneer of “I’m only doing this for her own good” and the hostility for Dio is perfectly understandable.
meenie probably should get some help, but if “Marcus” isn’t causing her any problems, I can’t imagine why she should feel obligated to do so. Sure, she might have a tumour that’ll eventually cause her head to explode, Scanners-style, but she might also get hit by a bus tomorrow, too.
I say to you what I and others have said to others: you are imagining a malice and self-servingness in Dio’s statements that is not actually there. He has mostly kept to the “Either she is lying or should get help,” theme he presented in the OP, along with an attitude that anybody who, like you, thinks that symptoms of serious mental illness, like psychosis or schizophrenia, should only be looked into if they make someone a threat to themselves or others, is not helping her.
In Meenie we have a woman of 28 who still lives with her parents and has only one close friend–not symptoms on their own but when viewed in light of her hallucinations indicate all is not well in her world and that her illness may be preventing her from functioning as well as she could. A proper diagnosis and treatment could open the world for her but people who say “What harm is it having? Let her have her fun even if it’s caused by illness,” are doing her no favors and are doing harm by supporting her delusions. And that, as I’ve said before, is kinda sick.
And you’re wrong that I’m imagining such. Dio could be the nicest sweetest guy in the world (when he’s not in rant mode) but he’s started a dumb thread, and not his first. I don’t care what his motivation was, be it malicious or self-serving or just spectacularly clumsy altruism.
Well, I didn’t say “only”, I said “probably”. Anyway, until and unless meenie starts showing more dramatic symptoms, the only person who can get meenie into therapy is meenie herself. Somehow, saying she “IS COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT” strikes me as comically unpersuasive. Despite Dio’s many many many follow-up explanations (89 at last check), he can’t quite erase that negative first impression nor, I think, does he deserve for us to politely forget all about it.
Who, if anyone, functions as well as they could? Heck, spending any time at all on this message board is a net loss to anyone’s total functionality, in that none of us are learning new job skills or getting in better physical shape or curing cancer as a result.
“A proper diagnosis” and “kinda sick” are amusing things to have in one paragraph. In any case, meenie is far far away from me, completely outside my sphere of influence. Whether she seeks care or not isn’t something I can control. Dio and you, by comparison, are far more obsessed with her than I am (that is to say, you want her to do something and I don’t care if she does something) and, indeed, the degree of harm “Marcus” is doing remains unclear and not something I can summon a lot of concern about.
I don’t care if she gets checked out either, really. I was just observing that she probably should for her own good. No skin off my dick if she doesn’t though. Mostly what I’ve been fending off is the protests of those who are unbelievably offended that anyone would suggest that a person describing disturbing symptoms should see a doctor.