Meenie7's invisible friend

The BBQ Pit
121

[Quote=drachillix]
How did they know they successfuly assaulted the invisible friend? How did it disturb you to witness the killing of something you didn’t think existed? How can you murder something that does not exist.
[/quote]

These are ridiculous questions. Obviously they didn’t actually assault anyone It was an invisible friend. Not real, remember? What disturbed me was the callousness of the girls doing it, not some sort of crime against supernature. Did I say there was an actual murder? Nope, pretty sure I called it a “murder”, around the time that I mentioned having absolutely no belief that this invisipal was real.

[QUOTE=Sleeps With Butterflies]
Perhaps you’re taking that a bit literally. I imagine (although I can’t speak for her) that it disturbed her to see these girls being so hateful to a peer for the sheer sake of shittiness. Perhaps she was distressed because the girl was beside herself and inconsolable. Not a far jump to feel terrible for another human being in distress. Man, that’s a concept!
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, pretty much. These girls were taking a lot of pleasure in “destroying” this invisible friend. It was along the lines of “Well, he’s not real anyway, so I’ll destroy him and he’ll be double not real, and I’ll be double right!” to prove the point that they were stronger and better than her. I do worry about the girl’s mental state, as she was reduced to blubbering by, well, nothing real. She could just have easily said, “Whatever, Look at you dumbasses, kicking the air’s ass.” I still felt bad for her.

I feel like this thread is a whole lot of kicking the air’s ass, to prove some petty point. Yeah, the shit ain’t real. You could just roll your eyes and go about your day, instead of engaging in the same sort of behavior as a 12 year old girl.

122

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
How is it helpful or positive to humor her? If she really believes this is happening, then I beseech her in all seriousness to talk to somebody.
[/QUOTE]

But you AREN’T trying to be helpful or positive. You are just being a dick.

I don’t believe that meenie’s friend Marcus is real. I also found a lot of the initial reactions in the thread a bit odd. But I didn’t care enough to respond to either. You obviously did. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you’re not doing it in a way that conveys any kind of sincere concern. And there’s nothing really wrong with that either, since you don’t owe meenie anything; I just don’t see the point of you trying to argue that you’re not being a dick.

Unless you sincerely believe that you have only her best interests at heart. Then I’d say you are as delusional as you paint her to be.

123

[QUOTE=Lobohan]
Why are you humoring an idiot or liar on a board that makes it’s goal to “Fight Ignorance”?

Do you think we should not argue against moon landing skeptics? How about Intelligent Design advocates? At what level is it okay to point out that someone’s opinions are based on ignorance?
[/QUOTE]
The difference here is that the person in question doesn’t simply hold an ignorant belief like ID, but may have a symptom of a serious mental illness. I’m not saying the person’s beliefs should be humored, but I think the mental illness possibility makes it appropriate to not be insulting. Insulting this person may be as appropriate as berating a mentally disabled person for being stupid.

124

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
But you AREN’T trying to be helpful or positive. You are just being a dick.
[/quote]

Why is telling her to get help being a dick to her?

125

I can tell you from my psych nursing experience that if Meenie7 is not a liar, a troll or someone with odd tastes in entertainment (we do shit like this all the time at work - pretend something that is ridiculous), and is, in fact delusional, no amount of insulting will seem like berating to her.

SOP for dealing with delusions is to be non-confrontational about them because nay saying achieves nothing other than making you one of “them.” If you can’t get a patient to bed because of their delusional belief that the black car in the car park is a CIA observation vehicle, you inform them that you will get it checked out and have the staff member who owns it park somewhere else.

I met many lovely, kind natured patients brought in by family members because they had started to voice delusional ideation. The family were doing them a favour - mental illness doesn’t improve by ignoring it.

Just because Meenie7 has a twee little story to tell, people are happy to give her a pass. What if Marcus (a very unlikely name for the period) was a little green alien? How about if Marcus starts telling her to kill the people at work? What if she tells us that they are involved in a sexual relationship? Why does the whole story make it impossible to perform any reality testing? Why when another nutball tries to ease “Marcus’s” suffering, using the standard BS does “Marcus” have an explanation that excludes the ubiquitous “white light”?

126

[QUOTE=Kythereia]
Gosh, that’s supportive of you.

How is this (and Dio’s) attitude in any way helpful or positive? Why the massive need to be such dicks?
[/QUOTE]

For most of us, it’s not a masssive need to be such dicks.

meenie asks why we would even open such a thread. She doesn’t chaeck out sports threads, or political threads. I’ll tell her why:

Because if someone is talking to a ghost who has distinct experiences from the seer, it’s far and away THE MOST FUCKING INTERESTING AND FASCINATING thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

It’s more interesting than going to the moon. That’s just engineering.

It’s more interesting than if we discovered a new sypmhony by Beethoven.

It’s more interesting then a guy running a 9.70 in the 100 yard dash.

It’s more interesting than if we cloned a human.

It’s more interesting than if we created cold fusion.

It is simply the most fucking interesting thing I’ve ever heard in my life, don’t you agree? It would change the way the entire scientific community thinks about reality. It would change religion. It would change warfare. It would change the world.

Yet when it comes to actually establishing its existence, the purveyor of the story pulls back. They won’t offer evidence. They won’t let people do an experiment.

That’s insanely frustrating. And, any mention of it on this message board is nothing more than trolling. Asking the question “have you had paranormal experiences?” is almost trolling.

That’s why the whole thing feels like chain-yanking, lying, or just plain crazy, and it’s why every has a right to be as much of a dick as they want to the person who is actively trolling them, as meenie is.

127

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Why is telling her to get help being a dick to her?
[/QUOTE]

Oh, give me a fucking break. I like you most of the time, but knock off the “who, me?” routine. You didn’t just suggest she seek help. You called her fucking crazy, then suggested she seek help. Unless you’re a licensed psychiatrist & can demonstrate otherwise, I’m going to go ahead and assume that your method of confrontation is just as harmful as humoring her.

For the most part, I don’t have a problem with this pit. That being said, nobody here is buying the idea that you’re trying to help.

128

[QUOTE=Jragon]
If she’s really truly experiencing this and it doesn’t work it may finally convince her she was wrong and needs help. We can press for a controlled environment if her personal uncontrolled test seems to work out. Who knows, we may get our answer in a controlled environment, but it seems that’s never going to occur unless she agrees to prove it to herself with an uncontrolled one first. The possibility of getting evidence from reputable sources at a later date is worth getting potentially bad evidence right now.
[/QUOTE]

This is the reason I proposed the dice test - thank you.

129

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Everybody still carried on the same after it got moved. You’ll notice I never said a word while it was still in IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

FTR
I stopped posting to the thread once it was moved to GD.

130

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
Oh, give me a fucking break. I like you most of the time, but knock off the “who, me?” routine. You didn’t just suggest she seek help. You called her fucking crazy, then suggested she seek help. Unless you’re a licensed psychiatrist & can demonstrate otherwise, I’m going to go ahead and assume that your method of confrontation is just as harmful as humoring her.

For the most part, I don’t have a problem with this pit. That being said, nobody here is buying the idea that you’re trying to help.
[/QUOTE]

If she really believes this, then I AM trying to help. I have worked professionally with people who have schizophrenia. I take it seriously.

Also, the “you’re not a psychiatrist” line is stupid. I’m not diagnosing her and I’ve already said I think mental illness is the LEAST likely of the two possibilities. I don’t have to be a psychiatrist to know that she’s either lying or deluded. I’m sure you would agree that those are the only two possibilities.

131

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Maybe you should have called the invisible cops.
[/QUOTE]

Fuck the cops. We got Frank.

132

[QUOTE=Cisco]
She’s obviously trolling
[/QUOTE]
No, she’s not.

133

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If she really believes this, then I AM trying to help. I have worked professionally with people who have schizophrenia. I take it seriously.

Also, the “you’re not a psychiatrist” line is stupid. I’m not diagnosing her and I’ve already said I think mental illness is the LEAST likely of the two possibilities. I don’t have to be a psychiatrist to know that she’s either lying or deluded. I’m sure you would agree that those are the only two possibilities.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t give a shit if those are the only possibilities, since they have nothing to do with what I posted. My only point was that calling someone “crazy” isn’t “trying to help”, and you’re full of shit if you think it is.

134

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
My only point was that calling someone “crazy” isn’t “trying to help”, and you’re full of shit if you think it is.
[/QUOTE]
There are more graceful ways of saying it, in that it’s more aggressive than passive-aggressive, but functionally it is no different than patting her on the hand and saying, “Honey, have you spoken about this to a qualified professional? Perhaps that would be a good idea.”

135

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
Oh, give me a fucking break. I like you most of the time, but knock off the “who, me?” routine. You didn’t just suggest she seek help. You called her fucking crazy, then suggested she seek help. Unless you’re a licensed psychiatrist & can demonstrate otherwise, I’m going to go ahead and assume that your method of confrontation is just as harmful as humoring her.

[/QUOTE]

Also, Diogenes could have gotten her attention by stating the same thing in the original thread, or even PMing her. But that wouldn’t have been very fun, since you’d have had to word it in a non-insulting way, and with the latter method there would be no audience to your righteous indignation, no?

I have no problem with your accusations per se - this is after all the Pit - it’s your attitude of “Look, I’m just trying to help!” that makes me :rolleyes: .

136

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
Also, Diogenes could have gotten her attention by stating the same thing in the original thread, or even PMing her. But that wouldn’t have been very fun, since you’d have had to word it in a non-insulting way, and with the latter method there would be no audience to your righteous indignation, no?

I have no problem with your accusations per se - this is after all the Pit - it’s your attitude of “Look, I’m just trying to help!” that makes me :rolleyes: .
[/QUOTE]

If it comes across that way, it’s because I think there’s only a miniscule chance that she really believes what she’s saying.

137

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
But this was not an MHO or MPSIMS thread. It was posted in Great Debates. People are not supposed to just be able to post patently ridiculous, bullshit assertions without getting called on it.

It was posted in the debate forum, therefore her claims are fair game for challenge.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yes and no. As noted, it was originally posted in IMHO as the direct response to a poll. Now, I realize that in your odd view of the world, once something finds itself in GD, there is some sort of divine requirement that every aspect of the phenomenon or event must be examined in the most critical light and challenged for any deviation from a mechanistic worldview.
For better or worse, I do not share that view. meenie7’s continued participation in the thread in GD was to maintain the same question-answering posture that she maintained before the move. She did not initiate the change in Forum and anyone is allowed to respond to a question in any Forum if they so choose.

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The main points in my OP were not opinions, they were facts. Eenie* is either lying or deluded. There are no other choices. That’s not an opinion, it’s a flat statement of fact.
[/quote]
Nah. That remains your opinion. I have no idea whether there is an actual phenomenon that results in people believing that they have had encounters with ghosts, but given that every single culture of which I have heard includes ghost stories, I would not find it improbable that there is some sort of phenomenon (aside from insanity) that causes people to have experiences of “ghosts.” Your absolutist declaration that there can be no such phenomenon with its corollary that anyone who talks about the subject is deluded or lying, is not a “fact”; it is your opinion.

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Like I said, this was not some harmless creepy story about sheets on a line in an MPSims thread. It’s a series of extremely bizarre assertions in GD. Since when does crap like that get accepted so uncritically? If we start letting crap like that go in GD, then we’re going to lose something fundamentally distinctive about this board.
[/quote]
Rudeness? Intolerance? Bigotry (in its narrower sense of a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices)?

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Now that I think about, I think I am more irritated with the uncritical response to meenie’s ludicrous posts than I am to meenie herself.
[/QUOTE]
And I am bemused by the notion that simply attacking every foreign viewpoint before one has heard it out is in some way a noble or necessary activity. It is not “humoring” a person to simply let that person explain his or her views in detail before trying to crush him or her. meenie7 was not putting forward an argument that needed rebuttal; she was describing a phenomenon she has encountered. Now, she may very well be deluded or lying, but no one is compelled to believe her. If allowed to respond to civil questions over a period of time, she might very well provide enough information to indicate clearly whether her stories are delusions or lies–or, improbably, narrations of an actual phenomenon.
I do not see the initial lack of attacks on her or her story as credulousness on the part of the GD denizens so much as curiosity. Surely you are not opposed to curiosity, even in GD?

= = =

At any rate, the offending thread has now been moved to MPSIMS where all the posters dying to express their incredulity will not be offended by its presence in GD.

138

[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher]
No, she’s not.
[/QUOTE]

Your post is your cite? I have no idea who Mister Wang Kan is.

139

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
Now, I realize that in your odd view of the world, once something finds itself in GD, there is some sort of divine requirement that every aspect of the phenomenon or event must be examined in the most critical light and challenged for any deviation from a mechanistic worldview. For better or worse, I do not share that view.
[/quote]
Well, you may be a mod there and your definition of the forum may, in your mind, be THE definition, but, as many people have pointed out, THAT’S NOT HOW GREAT DEBATES WORKS!!! And you CANNOT go redefining it as you please.

140

[QUOTE=dropzone]
There are more graceful ways of saying it, in that it’s more aggressive than passive-aggressive, but functionally it is no different than patting her on the hand and saying, “Honey, have you spoken about this to a qualified professional? Perhaps that would be a good idea.”
[/QUOTE]

Various levels of aggression, when dealing with people who may or may not have certain mental disorders, are functionally different from one another.