I’ve learned more in the last 12 hours about some of the personalities in this community than I have in months of reading and posting.
And I am saddened.
What a fucking joke…
Although I already posted my feelings in MPSIMS, I felt the need to chime in here as well. Particularly since I have something new to say.
Folks, the SDMB is not a right. We are not constitutionally granted the right to have this board and to say what we want to say here. OTOH, in the time I’ve spent on the 'net, this is the only place I want to spend my free time. To that end, I would not do anything (at least not anything unfounded) to disrupt the board, let alone bring about its demise. If I was inadvertantly doing something of this nature, and the admins or mods warned me to stop, I would.
I enjoy this “place” like I would enjoy a quiet park or a relaxing coffee house. It’s a place that I go to relax and be myself. It pains me when someone comes in and makes a lot of noise or disturbs the atmosphere. It also pains me when someone threatens to shut it down or pave over it. This is as much my home as the apartment I type this in, and I am very protective of it.
Ed is the (I repeat, the) manager of this refuge. Because of that, I am very protective of him as well. If he says that someone is causing problems and is not allowed to come in anymore, that’s good enough for me. Melin was a worker here, who broke the rules and was relieved of her position. It doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me that she might want some revenge. I believe Ed when he says that she was endangering this place, and because of that I’m glad she’s gone.
A couple weeks ago, I started a thread in MPSIMS about having to kick a kid out of the HS band program I work for. He was a friendly guy, and a good musician, but he was also a trouble maker. Several of you supported my actions, no one disapproved. I don’t think I need to describe the parallels here.
God is my co-pilot. Blame Him.
Um, and of course it’s totally impossible that she might have had an actual ligitimate reason to sue. :rolleyes:
And she WAS voted best moderator. That isn’t her fault.
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From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion”
the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
Hey, I don’t know a thing about this, but:
You can be the coolest, smartest, most helpful and witty motherfucker in the world, and maybe I really, really like you and enjoy listening to what you have to say, and maybe even consider you a friend, but if you threaten to sue me and I’m convinced you mean it, well, the love affair is fucking over. End of story. Have a nice life, and I don’t want to hear any bitching out of you or any of your fucking friends when I lock my door in your face.
Of course, that’s all merely hypothetical. Not knowing anything, I don’t have an opinion on the real-life situation.
If this website costs them more than $50/month they’re getting ripped off. It just doesn’t cost that much to run a website, even a large one with a lot of traffic (unless it has lots and lots of large graphics).
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From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion”
the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
Just because they have the right to do something doesn’t mean that they are right to do it.
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From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion”
the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
not hijacking thread or making light of this situation but need to say something
Hey Demo, and last night you and I were bitching about the fact that the boards didn’t have anything interesting happening. This takes the cake.
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On a side note, this whole issue is a sad thing for all involved. Not just us posters who enjoyed Melin’s posts but for the admins and mods…nobody likes this kind of thing I am sure.
My email is back. Here are some links to the past that were provided to me by Melin when I unknowingly stepped into the middle of a catfight:
http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000124.html
http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000116.html
http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000601.html
I present these links solely so that the new folks can see for themselves what led to the firing of Melin as moderator. I’m still not sure if it was justified.
When all else fails, ask Cecil.
OR Melin has a very good reason to threaten a lawsuit (she did)
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From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion”
the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
Opalcat,
If Melin has the best reason in the world to bring about a lawsuit (and I have no idea), do you want her to? You keep talking about the fact that she has a legit grievance. Do you feel it is serious enough to warrant the end of the SDMB?
In this case, Ed, Risk avoidance was the best way to avoid or limit the scope of legal action.
I can’t imagine what she could claim for damages, but if someone threatens to sue, it is best to sever contact. WE do it all the time out here in the business world.
So many of these excuses are just such bullshit.
In one breath they’d have you believe that it is IMPERATIVE for the Reader to be online and in the next they’d have you believe they’d just shut it down and walk away…a…which is it?
Secondly, I guess we should hope that the Reader isn’t sued for workman’s comp, wrongful firing, defamation of character, or any other non-message board related reason, because, hey, they’d have to close up shop right?..bullshit…if the financial state of the Chicago Reader is that shaky, then I suggest that you don’t get to comfy with the idea of the continued existance of this message board, this site, or the SD columns because a bad quarter or two might drive them into bankruptcy! Lord help us all if someone slips and falls in their parking lot (if they have one).
Thirdly, as Opal points out, the cost of running this site is miniscule, so although we all appreciate it’s existance, let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that the Reader is losing more than a couple grand a year running it…M’kay?
Fourthly, what corporation doesn’t at least have attorneys on retainer or on staff?..and why assume that a lawsuit would ask for large-scale monetary damages? Some lawsuits might only be asking for a retraction, a change in policy, or the like. Must we assume the worst in THIS situation? Many suits never make it into a courtroom.
I find it more likely that the REAL and PRIMARY reason for the banishment is the criticism (consistanly) leveled by Melin. I can tell each of you from experience that criticizing this board is the single worst thing that you can do in the eyes of the admins. It just won’t be tolerated as has once again be demonstrated…and hey, that’s Ed’s perogative…but you know something? I honestly don’t believe that what makes this board great is NOT the ties to Cecil Adams columns and books. It’s the individual members that collectively make this experience what it is. The board is richer for the diversity of personalities and opinions and each time a contributing member is banned or chased away the board loses.
As much as I’ve been irritated by folks like slythe, and power-happy bullies like DavidB, I’d hate to see them go for any reason.
So…lighten up you butt-kissers and take a different look at this situation.
No, of course not.
But given that Ed says he banned Melin “because I’m fed up with her nonsense” and her “various two-bit irritants,” I can’t help but wonder what you all peg my Irritant Quotient at right now…
I’m not saying a lawsuit wasn’t discussed or that a lawsuit isn’t something to avoid at all costs, but the way this was presented to us REALLY makes it look like it’s a personal issue between Ed and Melin. And since I’ve let it be known that I think Ed handled this quite poorly, and if Ed’s in a bad mood one day and I happen to say something that irritates him two-bits worth…
I doubt I’m alone in feeling as though I must now guard everything I say, because someone in power might become “fed up” and boot me, too. Might not be true, but that’s honestly what I’m feeling right now.
StoryTyler, Cyb-Killer
“Not everybody does it, but everybody should.”
Well, Krispy, that’s just it. You are talking about NON-MB related lawsuits. We are talking about MB related lawsuits. Exactly how far should the Reader extend itself so that we can enjoy this place? How much money do you feel they should pony up to keep this board running even though we aren’t paying them a dime to be here?
Imagine for a moment that you were running a business from a website, and you had a MB on your website, a message board that related to just one little facet of your business as a whole, just for the heck of it, not making any money off of it - even costing you money, and someone sued or threatened to sue you for something said or done on the board, would you keep it running? That board would have turned from a little slice of your website into a great big pain the ass that might end up costing you a lot of money and maybe your good name.
I don’t know what Melin’s problem was, so I don’t know if the suit would be legit or not. She is a lawyer, so I am going to assume that she wouldn’t go off half-cocked threatening frivolous lawsuits. But it doesn’t really matter. A lawsuit is a lawsuit.
sigh
Ok, Melin’s response is here http://fathom.org/cgi-bin/sdmb.pl?read=1284
You can read what led up to it, but the lawsuit issue was over something that happened on MFSD and the “threat” was that she wanted an apology and an explanation to clear up the issue, or it might become a legal situation. Her professional reputation was being called into question by accusations made, fed by tsd staff, in a forum where collegues of hers were present. Anyway, as things progressed, she decided that the TSD was in fact NOT responsible and withdrew both the legal threat AND the demand for an apology, which Ed then posted to mfsd anyway.
This issue was resolved completely before this whole banning thing came up. I firmly believe that Ed just doesn’t like Melin and is using this as an excuse. Note that it isn’t even his major argument in his OP.
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From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion”
the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
A little paranoid today?
You turn me on. But maybe it’s because I just spent 20 years in the jungle, getting it on with anything I could attract with a piece of fruit.
Apparently not.
Paranoia is the rational response when they REALLY ARE out to get you.
When all else fails, ask Cecil.
Just for some perspective, I’d like to talk about some of the costs of litigation. I’m coming from the perspective of a firm that does commercial litigation, among other things, in New York City, but costs for serious commercial litigation in Chicago or California should not be on about the same scale (and I’m sort of lowballing here – things can go much higher). Also this refers to commercial litigation (which any suit about the SDMB would likely be), not personal injury litigation, which is usually more straightforward and has less litigation costs.
First of all, anyone can file a lawsuit against anyone else. All that is required is that you go to the courthouse and pay the filing fee (about $100). Once a suit is filed, the defendant is required to answer, and to answer, the defendant must investigate the facts and the law. The costs at this stage would probably run a few thousand dollars, depending on how complex the case is.
After investigating the claim, the defendant may move to dismiss it. At this stage the complaint may only be dismissed if it does not state a legally valid claim or is deficient in some other way. Now the costs of a motion to dismiss may run $5-10 thousand, or higher.
If the suit is dismissed at this stage, this is all the defendant is out. There may be some chance that the defendant may recoup some of its expenses if the lawsuit is found to be frivolous, but this is a very low standard. It is unlikely that a competent lawyer would draft a suit that would be found frivolous, particularly in an emerging area like internet law.
Now, depending on how the suit is drafted, it may state a legally valid claim that cannot be proven based on the evidence that is out there. In this case the plaintiff is entitled to discover facts and evidence to try to prove his or her claim, and the defendant is likewise entitled to take discovery to support its case. This discovery will likely include depositions, which are sworn interviews of witnesses taken before a court reporter. Frequently in discovery there are disputes over what must be produced that have to be decided by the court, requiring expensive motion practice. Depending on the extent of discovery and the number of disputes, the costs can range from thousands to hundreds of thousands, or more.
At this stage there is often a motion for summary judgment, in which the defendant tries to show that the plaintiff’s evidence is insufficient to prove his or her case. This can cost another $5-10 thousand or more.
If the case survives summary judgment, it will go to trial, at a cost of several to many thousands more.
Now in most commercial litigation, each side is paying these kinds of costs, so there is a strong incentive to settle disputes to avoid the risks and expenses of further litigation. However when the plaintiff represents him- or herself, he or she will face relatively few costs and little risk, and, if competent and determined, will be able to drive even a weak case quite far along the process.
(Note that these estimates are for a commercial case of moderate complexity with a medium to high end corporate law firm [not necesarily mine]. I’m also oversimplifying some things, and there are also lots of other potential twists and turns that the case may take. YMMV.)
Now, even if the Chicago Reader is paying rather little for this site, the specter of incurring this level of costs can seriously change the economics of the situation.