[QUOTE=Frylock]
But everyone else is?
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
No. Statistics apply to groups, not individuals. I don’t know where you get the idea that I treat people like statistics from any posting in this thread.
Similarly I don’t where people get off with the “overprotective” or paranoid bullshit. it may be hopeless, but I’ll try one more time to explain myself.
When you’re children are born, they are completely helpless and rely on you for everything. As a parent your goals should be to keep that child safe, happy, and provide it with love and a stimulating, challenging, and educational environment so it can grow into adulthood as a well-adjusted individual.
This is very important to you. Probably the most important thing to you.
Other people feel differently. Most are somewhat tolerant, friendly, helpful and respectful. Some are indifferent.
There are many dangers in the world to children. Most of these stem from the child’s inexperience and inability to cope. The child gains exposure to these dangers and competence in dealing with them as they are able. You judge and control the exposure.
For example, stairs are potentially lethal to a 9 month old. For a while, I was the stair Nazi, making sure all stairs were blocked off at all times. Stairs though, were mastered several years ago, and i don’t worry about those. Stairs fall into the category of physical dangers.
A pool is another. We have a pool. The pool has an alarm that goes in the water and can detect a child falling in or swimming. The pool has a fence. The fence has a gate. The gate has an alarm. The gate has a lock. The doors to our house similarly have a lock and an alarm.
I am not afraid of the pool, but because it is inherently dangerous to a child I have a system of protection several layers deep.
- Alarm on the pool.
- Fencing
- Locked and alarmed gate.
- Locked and alarmed door.
We also have systems in place.
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Rules. The children are educated to never swim alone. The gates, alarms, and locks are always active. If we have a swim party we either hire a lifeguard or myself, my wife, or another qualified individual has their sole responsibility to monitor the pool.
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Education. The kids are excellent swimmers. They’ve been taught how to float. They’ve been taught to respect the danger of the pool. They’ve been taught about drowning and how to extricate themselves from a problem.
Despite all this, it’s still possible we might have a tragedy someday. But, in order for this tragedy to occur there has to be multiple failures. No one thing should do the trick.
Paranoid? I consider it the reasonable price of having a pool. I didn’t make this stuff up. This is what is recommended for pool safety by several pool manufacturers.
So, at home we have a controlled and safe and fun environment. Or, as much so as we can make it.
The school my children go to does not let strangers approach the children. The doors are locked to the outside and you have to check in. The teachers are vetted, and educated. If parents are participating in activities or volunteering to help on field trips they undergo a background check.
I am satisfied that the school is a prudent and reasonably safe environment for my kids.
In public things are very different. It is a fundamentally uncontrolled environment. We spend a lot of time in kid-friendly places where there is a higher degree of control and the physical dangers are less. But still things happen. You have to be careful. there are physical dangers but most of the dangers stem from other people.
The dangers from other people are:
- Stupidity
- Indifference
- Carelessness
- Self-centeredness
- Obliviousness
- Well-intentioned ignorance
- Outright malicious intent.
Molester and pedophiles and such fall into #7. This is by far the least significant threat. Maybe only three or four times in eight years have I felt this to be an issue in a situation. I have only suspected that it was an issue about twice as many times. As I prudently guard the pool, I try to prudently guard against this all the time though. The system I try to use (and that I guess most parents use) tries to guard against all these things 1-7 simultaneously.
Typical dangers might be (taken from personal experience)
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Idiot at park loses control of aggressive dog or lets it off leash and it attacks or menaces child.
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Idiot drives through parking lot of Toys R US at 50mph
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Idiot teenager at mall is playing rough grab ass with friends as we go to see Finding Nemo. Teenager runs full speed through ticket line with keys in his hand and accidently strikes three year old on head with keys. Teenager says “sorry” and keeps going. Three year old needs stitches.
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5 Year old is feeding ducks in pond at park. Middle-aged couple walks up to look at ducks while talking to each other and accidently knocks kid into pond.
-Young adults in renaisance costumes are practicing sword fighting near playground. Kids crowd around to watch while they swing bamboo recklessly without each other. Kids get closer and closer. Young adults are talking to kids in friendly fashion. Bamboo swords are swinging very hard, and uncomfortably close to small children. Young adults seem surprised and upset when the children are ushered away from them and they get dirty looks.
- Guy rides bike through center of playground at high speed while children are playing.
-Big kids playing way too roughly with or in presence of little kids.
-Teenager on date attempts to impress girlfriend with his child-friendliness by pushing your three your old on a swing really really high.
-Unknown adult attempts to scorn correct or chastise your child. For example, you bring toy to park (a kite, say) Your child flies kite and is happy. Other child attempts to steal kite and is rebuffed. Other child cries to parent. That parent approaches your child and tells her to stop being a brat and let somebody else play with it.
-Sad neglected or troubled child attempts to attach himself to younger play group as he is ostracized by peers. Does not play appropriately. May be too physical and risk hurting your kid, or may be very bossy or bullying, or may engage in innapropriate and disturbing behavior.
-Guy in store walks right to where your child is looking, reaches over her head and pulls a piece of merchandise off a shelf, toppling other merchandise onto your child’s head.
-Skeevy person staring at your kid intently. Engaged in no other apparent activity.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Sooooooo. In public my children are always directly supervised. This also protects the general public from all the harm and inconveniences they can cause the general public which really does not care for random encounters with my kids.
I don’t want them walking into a pavillion at somebody else’s birthday party, or helping themselves to your chicken, or waking you up from your peaceful nap under a tree to ask you what you are reading. For mutual safety I don’t want them hangin out on the bike/jogging path while you are exercising. I don’t want them throwing rocks in the parking lot where your car is parked. I don’t want them screaming and fighting or building sand castles three paces from where you set your beach blanket down for a quiet day at the beach.
I supervise my kids because it protects them from all kinds of things, and it protects you.
You see, I saw that kid running towards the line where I was waiting to see Finding with Nemo. I could have stood out and blocked the kid or glared at him as he came towards me, but I didn’t want to make a big deal. The consequences were stitches.
Sadly, a large minority of people do not act courteously or appropriately. Now, I really don’t care if I hurt their feelings. People are often self-centered and oblivious of the dangers they create.
I understand that if my child initiates an interraction with you, that was not your choice and i really have no right to enforce my will over your actions. In such an instance where you react courteously and appropriately to my child’s intrusion I will usually approach and ask if she is bothering you. Thank you for your patience and apologize. If it seems like a good interraction and you’re willing to continue, I will thank you for doing so. If I’m not happy with the interraction, I will thank you but make an excuse to go.
Generally speaking I am not happy or particularly tolerant of unknown adult parties initiating contact with my child without at first looking towards me for the permission glance. If they seek to do so, I will physically interpose myself or loudly get their attention and ask if I can help them.
I am generally not tolerant of people getting into close physical proximity with my children (unless required by circumstance like an elevator) as you’d be surprised how often a little kid can get whacked or knocked over by a careless or oblivious adult.
Typically I am consistently and automatically scanning for dangers or problems or threats the same way I am when I drive. 99.9% of these never develop to the point where action or a response is required. Any one that escalates to the point where I consider it to be a danger or innapropriate, I intervene.
Now the stories that I hear about in this thread are usually where some party is complaining about being unfairly persecuted or given the evil eye by a parent who they feel is assuming they are a child molester.
I suspect another side to some of these stories.
It’s like the episode of Cops where the guy is smoking crack while driving 100 mph and shooting his firearm at passers by. When intercepted he will inevitably say “I wasn’t doing anything! I am being unfairly discriminated against and persecuted.”
My experiences with my kids tend to run more along these latter lines.
-The group of thirteen year olds seem deeply shocked and dismayed that I am rude and intolerant of their cigarette smoking, bottle breaking, cursing, motocross party that spontaneously erupted in the toddler’s sandbox.
-The obviously drunk guy seems deeply offended that parents are unwilling to let their children participate in the tackle football game he was organizing.
-The busybody who has decided they wish to school or educate, correct, or play with your child without your permission is suddenly surprised and dismayed that you do not approve.
This last seems the least, but it’s really the worst and most common. I don’t need you to show my child the “right” way to play with something. They are happy playing the way they are.
I took my four year old fly-fishing at a nearby stream. She had her own fly rod. I showed her how to cast. We were far away from anybody else. 100s of yards. I walked ten feet away and cast my rod. This nice well-intentioned guy goes out of his way to come over and complement my daughter on her excellent casting technique. He seems nice and he’s kind of gotten the permission glance from me. Then he notices that there’s no fly on the end of her tippet.
“Hey, it looks like you lost your fly. Here, I have an extra. Let me put it on for you.”
Now she didn’t lose her fly. I purposely didn’t put one on. I didn’t want her whipping around a sharp hook.
“No. Please. Don’t do that thank you” I say.
“Why ever not? She’ll never catch a fish without a fly. You can’t fish without a fly.”
My daughter is hearing all this.
“Thanks anyway. Have a nice day. Bye.” I give him full evil eye.
Now my daughter who was perfectly happy swinging the fly string around is insistent on having a fly with a hook, and she cries and doesn’t want to fish anymore, and it’s ruined.
I’m sure that guy thought I was a jerk.
Most interractions in public place with my children and other adults are accomplished with polite glances and smiles and nods, and there’s very very rarely a problem. Very rarely do I need to intervene or express disaproval or throw a glance.
When I do, or when I see it happen to somebody else, it’s usually a sure bet that the asshole who decided to set up his archery target in front of the jungle gym is going to act all hurt and put upon by us parents’ overprotectiveness and paranoia.
Sorry guys. Where there is smoke there is often fire. If you are getting these glances and things a lot. Chances are you’re doing something to deserve it.
I dunno if this might have been Homophobia or assuming I was a child molsester or likely both. As* of course* all gay men (I am not gay) are pedophiles. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: