And dealing with their drug and alcohol problems after you get done with them is the price society pays for your ignorance.
Scylla, your examples of the “danger” your child faces everyday is just painfully ridiculous. Especially because most of them make the child (or the parents) look like the stupid party.
Idiot children run up to my dog, who gets all excited a little person is coming to see them. The parents then get mad at me.
And if I’m at a park where my dog can be off the leash, then your child should not be walking around unattended.
Oh, I didn’t realize only children were at risk when an idiot drives 50 MPH in a parking lot. Or is that only at Toys R Us?
Boo hoo. Yes, it’s sad when a child gets hurt and needs stictches, but considering all the crazy things kids do, it’s a miracle when one of them escapes childhood without stitches or a broken limb.
Why was your 5 year old that close to the pond (and you were so far away) that they could be “knocked into a pond.” And how deep could the water have been at the edge? A few inches? Less? Come on.
Again, why did you let your child get so close to the teens fighting with wooden swords? They were right to give you dirty looks.
You win this round.
Tell them to stop and that’s the end of it.
Why was a stranger pushing your child on the swing?
OK, the parent is an idiot. Some people are idiots. The world continues to spin.
Again, tell the big kid to stop. Why is that not allowed?
Why was your child standing in someone’s way. Children should not be given free reign in stores and parents that expect that are in the wrong.
As we’ve established, this is all in your head.
In short, the world is not your child’s playground and it’s wrong of you to expect it to be that way.
From your examples, it doesn’t sound as if this is the case.
So in your mind, everyone in this thread who is deeply offended that a parent would think they’re a molester just because they’re in the vicinity of their kid really is a molester? Again, I feel sorry for your daughter and the future she will have.
Have you not been listening to anyone in this thread? Molestations initiated by strangers is rare. On the other hand, a parent is much more likely to molest their child. So by your logic, we strange men and women should be watching you. And you especially shouldn’t be left alone with your child, because you’re obviously going to molest her. Since, by your own logic, anyone that says they aren’t doing anything wrong is doing something wrong.
I can only go by what you told the world on a message board. I’m simply offering another viewpoint, which you obviously don’t want to hear, because you are right and they’re YOUR kids and that’s final.
When you say things like:
…I see it as a hindrance; not a help, to your children (and society in general).
I initiate contact with children frequently, if I happen to be interested in the same thing they’re interested in, if I happen to notice a danger that they (or their parents) are unaware of, or (gasp!!) if I happen to see something that I think this kid *might be interested in. * I don’t ask permission to speak to other people’s children. The parents are most welcome to move away from my space if they feel threatened, but they’d probably be doing their children a disservice.
Whatever.
Yes. That’s it. You’ve got it!
[quote]
I initiate contact with children frequently, if I happen to be interested in the same thing they’re interested in, if I happen to notice a danger that they (or their parents) are unaware of, or (gasp!!) if I happen to see something that I think this kid *might be interested in. * I don’t ask permission to speak to other people’s children. The parents are most welcome to move away from my space if they feel threatened, but they’d probably be doing their children a disservice.
/QUOTE]
Ok. If you save my child from danger, I will be profusely greatful. If you initiate contact with my child without first at least getting tacit permission, I am going to intervene to the point of making my presence known, checking out what you are doing and making a judgement call.
[QUOTE=Scylla]
Yes. That’s it. You’ve got it!
See, I don’t call that “intervention”…I’d call it “participation.” Big difference in how people will perceive you.
[hijack]Just wanted to say - couldn’t you just cut the hook part off a fly, and then let your daughter cast with it?
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I would be happy to think are differences are simply semantic.
I would have had to have been smart enough to think of that.
That’s a great idea.
[QUOTE=Scylla]
But the words have very different meanings, and your behavior in this regard would force a decidedly different outcome, depending on whether you:
Intervene (To involve oneself in a situation so as to alter or hinder an action or development),
or
Participate (the act of taking part)
Justin:
I see that instead of responding to several of the scenarios, you’ve simply rewritten them.
The one that you do stay with as written is kind of telling.
Your response to a 180 kid running full speed at and colliding with a 38 pound girl, and in the process striking her in the head with car keys so that she needs stitches is…
“Boo-hoo.”
Apparently not a big deal, or worthy of concern, huh?
I have a low regard for such opinions.
I start by thinking how limited in intelligence the average or mean person is. By definition, fully half the people I encounter will not be as smart as even that. Than I realize that most people don’t think very much about what they are doing. Most of the time they are using only a fraction of their limited intellectual potential.
It has been my experience that these are the people who are most likely to offer you advice on how to raise your kid, and who are most likely to criticize or interfere.
It is not my place or my job to correct or improve these folk, nor do I have an interest in doing so.
I feel no obligation show their opinions any respect. I can safely dismiss them.
That would be the median, not mean. Do keep using all of your superior intellectual potential, by all means.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Semantics? Well, if we must:
My participation is certainly an intervention because of the observer fallacy. It certainly alters the interaction, and I may in fact hinder or stop it, either by accident or design.
But, I admit that “participation” is a softer and friendlier word than “intervention.” Lots of parents make the mistake of thinking that they are participating, when in fact they are intervening in their child’s development.
The classic example would be the Dad at the baseball game who yells at the ump and the coach and the other kids to “support” his kid, when in fact he is ruining it for his kid and everybody else.
A lot of times people will think they are participating in something when in fact they are intervening i.e. the fly fisherman.
I try to be careful of the negative effects of what I might do with good intentions. For example, if my children are playing happily with the bocce balls and I want to “participate” I may over-instruct by trying to teach them how to play bocce properly and ruin all the fun and positive experience. In such an example, my participation is actually an intervention.
So, I start with the premise that I am going to fuck and ruin it if I try to particpate, and then make a judgement call as to whether it’s still worth it.
From my perspective, it is better if you ask me first before you take a positive step to interract with my child. That way you can make sure that your participation will not be an intervention, and you will save me the hazard of being a potential intervention a few minutes down the road.
For example, if you say to me:
“I see your child is looking at caterpillars and spiders. I noticed a praying mantis in a bush just down this path a bit. May I show it to her?”
Three minutes later I don’t have to obviously follow you and ask you what you are doing and discern your intentions, and potentially intervene and diminish a magical and constructive experience for everybody.
My intellect has expanded beyond the need for picayune literalism.
You’re looking under the bed for trouble. No skin off my nose, as I don’t have to live with you. I also don’t have to ask permission to speak to your children or move away because you perceive your child might fall into a lake or your child’s feelings might be hurt by another kid whining to have a turn at your kid’s toy.
I also don’t need your permission to push the merry-go-round if your child is on it. Nor do I need to ask if it’s ok if I get in the sandbox and create a magnificent castle with some 5-year-olds. I might even ask your kid to pass the shovel and bucket to me. You can’t stop me. Your powers are useless here.
I won’t. I’ll talk to your child, treating her as an individual rather than a prized possession.
You were the one who threw the superfluous (and incorrect) mathematical word in, just to sound smarter.
From now on, you will refer to her as “Miss Ross.”
Actually, you do. You may not think you do, but you do. If you do not seek it, I am less inclined to extend you the benefit of the doubt, be polite, or cut you slack. I will not have a lot of respect for you because you are not being prudent, and, in my judgement I am going to assume that this lack of prudence and good judgement you are demonstrating is likely to extend into your interraction with my daughter. I may intervene on these grounds alone.
Here’s why. Perhaps my daughter has just eaten a big lunch and an ice cream and is prone to motion sickness. She is currently happy on the merry go round by herself going at 1/4 mile an hour. If you spin her, she is going to feel nauseaus and crappy and have a bad time for the next hour and may even throw up.
If I allow you to procede you will likely simply walk away when this happens, and I will have to clean it up and comfort my daughter, and you will have ruined her day.
If you ask, then I know you are concerned and are seeking knowledge about whether your interraction will be a good thing before you do it. This gives me confidence that it will be.
If you don’t, I assume that it’s really not about what’s best for the kid, as far as you’re concerned. If it was, you’d make the effort to find out first. Since you didn’t, I am likely to intervene.
No. You do not seem to understand. I am THE HAMMER OF GOD. In such a situation you are misinterpreting my restraint for impotence.
Whether or not you are aware of it, you are being placed under a microscope and being judged.
An unknown adult male, invading the sandbox to play with children not his own is being placed under intense scrutiny. Most every parent is evaluating you, not just me.
You are undergoing the worst form of profiling and suspicion possible, and chances are you have already failed the first major test. If you have not talked to the parents or otherwise presented yourself for examination or permission in some form, your judgement is seriously in question.
In my experience, most people who are good with kids and take pleasure in interracting with them and offering them constructive experiences are pretty considerate and concerned individuals.
They also know that it is a good idea to show and demonstrate their intentions and harmlessness and consideration.
You seem to be skipping this step. It appears to me that you are simultaneously approaching my kids and challenging me while using poor judgement.
Your statement “You can’t stop me,” pretty much confirms the challenge.
How do you appear? What is your demeanor? How do I feel about you? I will be asking myself all these questions. Based on your mistakes so far I am going to question whether or not you know how to play well with kids. Will what you are doing be a participation or an intervention. Maybe the kids are just happy playing by themselves digging a hole and don’t want the structure and control of an adult, and aren’t interested in building a “magnificent sandcastle?” Will you be cognizant and adaptive or ruin it for everybody?
These are the questions I will be asking myself. Most of all, I will be asking myself how this feels, looking for a twitch or a signal from any of my parental detectors that may signal something not right.
That makes it sound a lot bigger than it is, but that will all occur internally and automatically for me and most of the other parents in about the first 30 seconds.
No matter how I feel, you and I will have a conversation. Likely it will be a very transparent and pleasant conversation. That’s strictly up to you. Regardless of how the conversation goes there will be a subtext which you will need to respond to appropriately.
If you don’t, it will be suggested to you that perhaps this sandbox is for little kids not big adults and as we were here first, would you mind very much letting the kids play by themselves or now, thanks so much.
This isn’t really a request. If we are at this sad point, chances are that there has been some communication between the parents and there is consensus.
Various things can happen from there.
But if you think “He can’t stop me” and act on it, what you are telling me is that you are trying to usurp control over my children.
Considerate well-intentioned adults do not do that.
It’s very easy to have very positive experiences that everybody is happy and comfortable with. They are welcomed. I as a parent am grateful for them.
If you are not asking, you are putting yourself at risk. You are running the risk of doing the equivalent of handing a popsicle to a kid with an insulin pump.
With an attitude like that you are likely to create a confrontation. You may end up explaining to the policeman that you were only taking the little girl away from the playground and behind a bush to show her a praying mantis.
Good luck with that.
That’s not the thought process going on. This would presuppose that we all see your child primarily as your property. We see her as a child, a person. We’re not trying to usurp your authority, it does not and cannot exist over everything that takes place in her life.
I see the mantis has moved from path, out of the playground and hidden behind a bush since you last mentioned it. I said I would talk to your daughter, everything else is disingenuous elaboration.