[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
Every parent thinks their child is beautiful. Your snark serves no purpose in this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Except that it’s hilarious and emphasizes the inherent arrogance in assuming everyone is out to get you, ignoring anything resembling rational risk assessment.
[QUOTE=cher3]
With regard to the eight-year-old thing, I think current ideals regarding the female body are having their effect. Grown women are supposed to look like they never went through puberty (no body hair, no extraneous fat), plus or minus breast implants.
[/QUOTE]
IMO, you’re justifying pedophilia with that remark - it’s sentimentally close to “she was asking for it” but instead its “society made me this way”.
I have an eight-year-old, beautiful, blond, flirty daughter, just like Scylla. I do try hard to keep my protective impulses under control, knowing that most adults are perfectly safe.
I also remember, though, there is dangers to my kids out there. Yesterday evening my children and I went to our church. My three kids were to play while I attended a 45 minute meeting. They asked if they could play outside and I said yes but stay close to the front area of the building (so they’d have each other in sight - but I didn’t tell them that part). I reminded them that if anybody made them uncomfortable, to come inside.
They have to be aware of stranger danger, but it’s a balancing act - creating awareness without creating unnecessary fear. It’s the same balancing act as a parent - allowing freedom for the children but also protecting them as well. Being too far to either side of that scale is incorrect but it’s a lot easier to ere on the protective side.
In MPSIMS right now, there’s a thread describing the sexual assault of a doper’s 8-year old daughter. It’s chilling to us parents and of course there’s the over-protective posters that are appalled that the parent let the 8-year old out of her sight in her own yard. Unfortunately there’s evil out there and it’s impossible to protect against all of it.
We, as a society, are busily sanding the sharp edges off of everything and insulating our kids in bubble wrap. There’s a societal “too much” point, and, IMO, we’ve gone over it.
It’s unfortunate but I don’t think it’s going to change.
I’ve gotten this treatment before, but never from strangers surprisingly, never that I’ve noticed anyway. It’s from the father of my three young, female second cousins. I’ve known all three of them since they’ve been born and they are now 14,12, and 10. When they were younger we used to horse around all the time. We’d read together and do kids stuff even though I was in high school/college. The father always acted strangely towards me…
As for the Scylla thing, I’ll admit that when I was in 1st grade I pulled a girl’s pants down in the cafeteria. I don’t know why I did it, but I got a long lecture from the principal about inappropriate behavior. The lesson stuck, but unfortunately it seems now that I was being a predator. Thank goodness for this thread. I’ll go turn myself in to the authorities now.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Fine. Leave your daughter at home when you go to the grocery store. I have done nothing to deserve your Stare of Doom. I have gotten glared at for saying, “Excuse me,” to a young child who was standing in the middle of the aisle blocking all traffic.
I refuse to buy into your thinking that I should be glad to be demonized, because you care so much about your daughter’s safety . I never wanted to be near her in the first place.
It’s because of people like you that I prefer to do my shopping at 3 AM.
It’s because of people like you I feel powerless around misbehaving children, for if I make it clear I’ve noticed the child at all it feels likely that I will be accused of staring at the child with an impure heart.
It’s because of people like you in the local Family Court I wasted something like fifteen hours of my life defending myself against a baseless accusation. Without ever being charged with a single thing. Just as a ploy to make my house mate look like a bad mother.
It’s because of people like you that I can no longer spend time with The Monster. Even though I’d spent more time with her, raising her, and caring for her, than her father. Because any time the custody battle heats up, the law guardian listens to accusations that I might be molesting the child again. Never mind that no charges have ever been filed, and no evidence has been presented to support the theory that I am a would-be child molester. In the eyes of the law guardian that’s the truth.
It’s because of people like you that I get harassed whenever I go to vote. My polling place is in an Elementary School. But because I’m a male, and walking past the playground, I must be a monster. I couldn’t possibly be there to use the public building for any other purpose.
I dread the day that people like you find the cemetery. I’ve already stopped using the library.
I’m not trying to deny the desirability of protecting your daughter. But I don’t see why doing that means you and all the people like you have to treat every man you might meet as a slavering fiend.
Is there no room for a middle ground, really?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should get rid of the van. Or at least get some windows put in.
[QUOTE=Belrix]
IMO, you’re justifying pedophilia with that remark - it’s sentimentally close to “she was asking for it” but instead its “society made me this way”.
[/quote]
I took it as a complaint about the way women are portrayed in media, nothing else.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
She talks about how men who don’t have a lot of adult relationships (sexual or otherwise), who spend a lot of time with kids (like coaches, etc.) are in her “high risk” group.
[/quote]
I’m not clear. Is it men who don’t have adult relationships with kids *and *spend a lot of time with kids, or men who don’t have adult relationships or spend a lot of time with kids? My husband has plenty of adult relationships, but of course he spends a lot of time with kids–that’s his job as a teacher! And it seems incredibly sad to assume that men who volunteer their time as Scout leaders and coaches for other people’s children–you know, being part of that village it takes to raise a child–are viewed suspiciously.
Frankly, she seems like a bit of a loon. She doesn’t ever leave her kids in a group with known adult male authorities? Sounds like a great way to ensure that her kids have a complex.
Soon after we married, my husband (an Eagle Scout, as are his three brothers) tried to volunteer his time with the local troops. He called and sent in the forms repeatedly, and he never heard anything back. We even talked to neighbors who said their troops were looking for experienced Scouts to help out but never could get a response.
Somehow they caught wind when we had our son last spring, and not two weeks later the phone rang. They were looking for volunteers and donations. How very convenient! My husband has a child, so he’s no longer a threat to you?
I’m already not a huge fan of the homophobic Boy Scouts, but now I’m even less thrilled about the prospect of my son joining when he’s old enough. I’ll let him go if he wants to, but I can’t say I respect many of their decisions.
[QUOTE=burundi]
I’m not clear. Is it men who don’t have adult relationships with kids *and *spend a lot of time with kids, or men who don’t have adult relationships or spend a lot of time with kids? My husband has plenty of adult relationships, but of course he spends a lot of time with kids–that’s his job as a teacher! And it seems incredibly sad to assume that men who volunteer their time as Scout leaders and coaches for other people’s children–you know, being part of that village it takes to raise a child–are viewed suspiciously.
[/quote]
It was both…they both put a man at a higher risk for being a sex offender, according to her.
There’s a part in the book where she’s talking about how she always stays for her kids’ sports practices, that sort of thing…and another woman pulls up in a car, asks, “Is this Coach X’s practice?” and then even when she isn’t exactly sure, just leaves her kids to go find it. This is portrayed as being super irresponsible by the author. It doesn’t really seem like THAT big a deal that the kids have to go find the coach on their own without the mom being there (there were apparently three baseball diamonds in the area, so it wasn’t like they were stuck out in the middle of nowhere if that was the wrong area), but the author makes it sound horrifying that the woman wouldn’t even meet the coach.
Going to your kids’ soccer practice once in a while seems okay, or even to all the games, but going to every single practice to guard against molestation seemed overkill.
[QUOTE=astro]
Predators are like anyone with respect to being drawn to more attractive vs less attractive sexual objects depending on their particular fetish. This is human nature. A classically “cute”, “budding”, or “coltish” little girl is going to differentially attract the attention of more child predators than a more ordinary looking child. Any father who refuses to recognize that and take sensible precautions is being irresponsible if he has a cute “dolly” for a daughter.
[/QUOTE]
Is that even true, though? I thought that sexual molesters tended to be drawn to kids who were more vulnerable/left on their own more/had lower self image, that kind of thing.
[QUOTE=squeegee]
I took it as a complaint about the way women are portrayed in media, nothing else.
[/QUOTE]
I’d agree. I do think, though, that generalizations like cher3’s are a double-edged sword and, therefore, should be made with care. I was just trying to demonstrate the other edge with my remark.
Another example I use is when some minorities make claims that the majority behavior has driven them to lawless behavior. Fine, I say, but you’re justifying my prejudices when you claim that your lawless behaviors are forced upon you and therefore beyond your control.
[QUOTE=Pocito]
Soon after we married, my husband (an Eagle Scout, as are his three brothers) tried to volunteer his time with the local troops. He called and sent in the forms repeatedly, and he never heard anything back. We even talked to neighbors who said their troops were looking for experienced Scouts to help out but never could get a response.
Somehow they caught wind when we had our son last spring, and not two weeks later the phone rang. They were looking for volunteers and donations. How very convenient! My husband has a child, so he’s no longer a threat to you?
I’m already not a huge fan of the homophobic Boy Scouts, but now I’m even less thrilled about the prospect of my son joining when he’s old enough. I’ll let him go if he wants to, but I can’t say I respect many of their decisions.
[/QUOTE]
They’ve felt they had to be hypercareful about who interacts with the boys and on what level. We’re pretty involved right now and I don’t know any man associated with our pack who isn’t currently a father or grandfather.
My husband and son are going on their first all-scout (no moms or siblings invited) camping trip. Adults and scouts (these are 8-10 year olds, mostly) will be sleeping in separate tents because no scout can sleep in a tent with an adult (man, presumably) who isn’t his father, even if his father is there, too
[QUOTE=squeegee]
I took it as a complaint about the way women are portrayed in media, nothing else.
[/QUOTE]
Basically what I was trying to convey is that a 9-12 year-old in a swimsuit looks a whole lot more like a typical swimsuit model than she would have a few decades ago.
I’m not justifying pedophilia, and I would guess the men in the truck Scylla was talking about would have been more than a bit startled to find out how old the girl they were ogling was. It’s just my observation that there’s been a convergence in the way girls and women are supposed to look and dress.
[QUOTE=cher3]
They’ve felt they had to be hypercareful about who interacts with the boys and on what level. We’re pretty involved right now and I don’t know any man associated with our pack who isn’t currently a father or grandfather.
My husband and son are going on their first all-scout (no moms or siblings invited) camping trip. Adults and scouts (these are 8-10 year olds, mostly) will be sleeping in separate tents because no scout can sleep in a tent with an adult (man, presumably) who isn’t his father, even if his father is there, too
[/QUOTE]
My son is a scout, too, and it’s very clear in their policies that they’re being hyper-careful.
The unfortunate part is that they feel that they have to be hyper-careful - you know, because every man is gay or a potential pedophile. They don’t do it because it *is *likely, they do it because the parents think it’s likely.
It’s probably way more likely that another scout is sexually abusive.
And having the leaders be parents, I doubt, changes the odds. Lots of pedophiles have children and/or are married. This “must be a parent” thing is about keeping potentially gay men out since everybody knows that “gay” means “pedophile”.
I have five younger siblings I helped raise. I still help them now even if the youngest is 13.
I love kids & babies. I’m used to having them around.
But I have to be so careful when I talk to kids for fear I’m gonna get tarred with the worst kind of brush.
Pisses me right off.
It’s happened often enough to me that I realize how horrible it is, but it’s really a drop in the bucket compared to a lot of stuff that could potentially face me as a male. For instance, spouse or SO making up stories about physical abuse (or actual physical abuse but that’s cross-genders,).
Or, my personal favorite, people being paranoid when their 17-20 year old daughter wants to spend time with me, even when there is nothing going on. Some people take the aggro-swagger previously espoused in this thread by another poster well into their child’s adulthood, which cuts across “sorta” right into definitely creepy.
But getting the stink-eye or a talking-to in re: children is no great shakes, either.
[QUOTE=kambuckta]
Eight year old girls (for the most part) aren’t really changing and maturing all that much except for getting taller, skinnier and a lot smarter. They are not sexual beings, except in Scylla’s mind, which is a worry.
[/QUOTE]
The biggest vibe I got off Scylla’s post, having reread it, was less concern for her welfare as his daughter than one of a disturbing possessiveness towards his property: “It’s mine, and you’re not allowed to look at it.” The sentence about anything going into her pants belonging to him was downright odd, especially when directed towards a seven year old.
[QUOTE=Belrix]
My son is a scout, too, and it’s very clear in their policies that they’re being hyper-careful.
The unfortunate part is that they feel that they have to be hyper-careful - you know, because every man is gay or a potential pedophile. They don’t do it because it *is *likely, they do it because the parents think it’s likely.
[/QUOTE]
It’s probably also partly in order to protect the men themselves from unfounded accusations. If a guy can prove that he was never alone with a child, then he’s less likely to have his life destroyed if someone decides to accuse him of something.
Yes. Distinctly yes.
For some reason, strange housepets and small children love me. They seem to trust me on instinct, and they gravitate to me in social situations. I can’t tell you the number of times that I’ve heard that “Miss Fluffyboots always hates strangers! I can’t believe she’s in your lap and purring!”. A significant number of small children enjoy the lets-make-goofy-faces game with me, usually giggling up a storm while doing so. If I’m on a plane, the kids will invariably start such a game with me.
Under no circumstances will I be in a room alone with a kid because of all the horror stories of being accused of child molestation. I’ve gotten any number of looks from mothers who think I’m going to jump up and snatch their little kids because I’m smiling as they chase the ducks in the park.
I love kids, but I’m scared to be around them. It only takes one accusation, and your life is ruined.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
So why is a male teacher specifically counseled to have a *female *teacher, administrator or just some random *woman *passing by the classroom be his witness, and a female teacher told to have “someone else”, gender unspecified, in the room? Why are the men in this thread concerned with having a woman present, not just another adult?
[/QUOTE]
It’s because all men are rapists, and when 2 or more are in the same place, they are gang rapists and will cover for each other. Wimmin, on the other hand, are the hands and eyes of God. When backing up a male teacher, their word on his innocence will rule. When wimmin need a back up, they just need another adult body around in case a kid makes an accusation. How is that sexist? >>sarcasm<<
Apropos of nothing: I had a teacher in 5th & 6th grade who used to dole out candy in the classroom (scandalous in 1979!), and give kids rides home in the back of his pickup. All the kids wanted to be in his class. Queer as a $3 bill. Admired by parents & administration alike because he could motivate even the hardest cases to learn and toe the line in the classroom. Ended up putting a bullet in his own head in the late 80s/early 90s after a kid dropped a dime on him. He was dead before the investigation even started. My gut tells me he did nothing wrong but knew he had been tarred as a “witch” and was destined for the stake. With a pool of 30+ years of students, nobody else ever came forward with a “me too” story.
The accusation of “Ped” is a stain that doesn’t wash off even if it’s unfounded. This guy was all about kids. It’s easier for me to belive that he saw his future was stolen from him than to believe he’d been busted.
So, the OP: Yes, bugs the hell out of me. I’m often tempted to answer the stink-eye with “It’s not your little girl I’m interested in!” accompanied with a wicked leer at The Mamma. But I guess that’d be counter-productive.
I’m seeing an interesting parallel here:
Overprotective Parent: “There are so many stories of child molestation out there, I’m going to watch Johnny like a hawk - it just takes one time!”
Fearful Man: “There are so many stories of accusations of child molestation out there, I’m not taking the chance of being alone with a kid - it just takes one time!”
Are both sides taking the inflated media reports and anecdotes a little too seriously? We tell parents to chill out, that the incidents of molestation aren’t nearly as high as our information saturated society would have us believe. Maybe the same should be said to men - that the accusations of child abuse aren’t nearly as numerous as the news might have us believe, and that they’re overreacting, too. Chances of your kid being molested AND chances of you being accused of molesting someone else’s kid, are much smaller than people seem to think. But, yeah, there’s that “one time” thing, I can’t deny.