I agree.
The truth, though, is that the accusation is simply enough to utterly destroy his life. The accusation must be true because all men are pre-disposed to this.
I’ll bet the girl-scouts don’t have the same guidelines.
I’m kind of wondering this myself, too. Speaking as someone with no real dog in the fight (I’m not an adult male or a parent), it does seem like the news reports tend to be inflated. I know about stuff like the McMartin case and all the other hysteria “abuse” cases, but that doesn’t really happen all that often…and most kids don’t make up stuff out of the blue, do they? And molestation does happen, but I doubt quite as often as we’re led to believe…most kids do make it to adulthood relatively unscathed.
I didn’t used to worry about it. Then I got smeared in court. By the lawyer for someone whom I’d thought was a friend. And I had no voice of my own in the court, and had to sit there and take it. And then go through hoops to prove my lack of desire for little children. And because the court case ended before that process was completed - I remained smeared.
At this point, what I really fear is another accusation of that sort, where it could be argued that I was never cleared from that first accusation.
[hijack(?)]…And “make it to adulthood relatively unscathed” and “molested” are not mutually exclusive categories. Not to minimize anyone’s experience, but lots of kids have “played doctor” with older kids and grown up to be perfectly normal people. It doesn’t have to destroy you. [/hijack]
OtakuLoki, I hear you. And that totally, completely sucks and I’m so sorry for what you went through. But I wonder if this is sort of like me saying, “We had a house fire from a faulty solenoid (sp?) switch in the furnace when I was in fourth grade,” (which is true), and a whole bunch of people freaking out and switching to wood stoves after hearing my story and that of others. Yes, it happens. Yes, it happened to you, and that sucks. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen to you again, or that it’s going to happen to everyone else, you know?
WhyNot, I do understand what you’re saying, too. It just came as such a surprise to me, and I still feel so helpless about it, that my precautions seem completely reasonable to me. Without that background, they probably wouldn’t.
It’s a matter of “once burned, twice shy.” I’m not trying to advocate that my responses make for good public policy, just explaining that I really do believe that the threat is real, serious, and common.
That hasn’t been my experience. We are ALL told not to be alone with a child of either gender, ie., in a room with the door shut. Having someone else present would be sufficient protection, even if it’s in the next room on the hallway, even if it’s a man. The majority of teachers are women, esp. on the elementary level, so that other teacher will likely be a woman, but I don’t think it’s specifically required to be a woman, as you’re stating. The sexism exists but there’s no need to fabricate more of it than there actual is.
Seriously, the warning about being alone is given to everyone. Men may feel more paranoid about it, and may need more protection from accusations, but the policy is gender-neutral. I’m speaking only of schools here, since that’s the only situation where I’ve had to worry about the consequences of being alone with a kid. Believe me, the paranoia is not exclusive to men. When you are in a liability situation with someone else’s kid, you want to be careful no matter who you are.
At an organization I volunteer with (and I imagine at most) being alone with a child is itself a violation of the rules. The kids leave, and then one comes back to ask a question. You go downstairs to turn off the lights for the evening and bump into one playing around where he shouldn’t be. Suddenly, you’re in violation of rules that have been established to stop pedophiles.
My concern isn’t over children or their parents accusing me of child molestation – it’s of administration asking “Why were you alone with this child?”
No, they don’t, but the Boy Scouts are much, much more rule-oriented in general. At my last similar campout with the Girl Scouts we stayed in 12 person tents and the guideline was that there were to be at least two adults in each tent, but it was pretty clear that the reason had to do with keeping order, rather than surveillance.
My son is still a Cub Scout and, at that age, there a still family camping trips and what used to be calle "Den Mothers. One time last year we were allowed to chaperone one of the other boys whose parents couldn’t make it. We chose to put him and my son in their own tent and the rest of us (me, my husband, and my daughter) slept in another, but we weren’t instructed to do so. When they reach Boy Scouts I understand that there aren’t any official overnight trips any more and women are not allowed to be den leaders.
Any forty-year-old man threatening physical harm to a seven-year-old “predator” needs his brain rewired with a crowbar, if you ask me. Sadly, I live too far away and can’t afford to make the trip.
I used to live around the corner from Mt Hope Cemetary on Lilac. Absolutely beautiful [except for the little area where the water washed the coffins out :eek: ]
Minor hijack, I am actually in Rochester are for about another week and a half or 2 weeks. any chance of a minor rochester dope? mrAru will be up for the weekend of the 4th and we dont have much planned for saturday evening and a drink out somewhere might be nice…
I guess you missed the part where I said this happened to her “against her will.” Does saying that it happened against her will suggest that this was natural curiousity or playing daughter?
“Against her will.” I specifically used that language so somebody would know I was not talking playing Doctor, or casual teasing.
My mind boggles that some of you don’t think that a seven year old boy can act predatory. My mind boggles that some of you beleive that prepubescent means neuter.
Yeah, so prepubescents are sexual beings. That’s been shown. I still don’t believe that seven year olds act predatory in the same sense that a mature person can. Boggle all you want but if you want to convince me you’ll have to make some type of argument.
I don’t know about 7, but by 12, they can definitely be deliberately sexually inappropriate. I witnessed a 7th grade boy (through the window on a door; he didn’t know I was there) grab a girl’s ass with both hands. I mean, he did a full, deep two-handed squeeze, and laughed about it. I wrote a referral, and called his father, who said I had “overreacted” to an innocent, childish touch. He actually gave me a hard time for “getting his son in trouble.” The son got in-school suspension for 3 days, which seemed fine to me, in spite of his father’s protests. The kid did it on purpose with no concern for the girl’s boundaries or feelings.
What’s worse is, the girl at first was clearly distressed and embarrassed by the touching, but once peer pressure set in (this was a very popular boy), she asked me to get him off the hook. I couldn’t have done that even if I wanted to, and I tried to tell her that it’s NOT OK for someone to touch you against your will, even if it’s your “friend” or a popular kid. But she had been made to feel as if it were her fault that the boy got in trouble, which it wasn’t. It was alllll me. Her utter lack of any self-defense was distressing. I wanted her to be angry, but instead she was all self-blaming.
So, predatory preteens? While “predatory” may be a strong word, I’d say, definitely capable of transgressive sexual behavior with little or no concern with how wrong it is. If that were my daughter, I would be quite angry and disturbed. And I have a feeling this kind of thing goes on a lot more than most adults realize.
PS-- The father of the ass-grabbing boy ran for the school board. I loved it when he lost.
I don’t feel comfortable sharing the exact details of what happened. This was not teasing , nor was it playing doctor, not according to my daughter, they boy’s parents or the school.
This was forcing and taking pleasure in her terror. It bothered her quite a bit, and stuck with her.
I had still been with the strong teasing/bullying hypothesis myself until I spoke to the boy. He was… …off.
Otaku:
It seems to me that the accusation against you that was made in court is not of the nature of what we are talking about here. It seems to me you were just used in attack against your friend.
It appears to me that you’ve suggested that through no fault of your own your appearance is somewhat threatening or disreputable.
That’s bad luck and I sympathize.
Well, you’ve persuaded me, at least for that particular 7 year old. Still not sure how common if it all this type of activity is for ~7yr olds as a whole.
I really don’t have a problem with people being upset that they are treated suspiciously around small kids by caregivers.
You just don’t get it.
That’s the whole point. We want you to feel that way. You are being put on notice that you are interracting with children who are loved and watched over.
The people who are made uncomfortable and offended by it are people I don’t want near my kids. seriously, if this pisses you off and disturbs you. You don’t get it. It’s not about you. It’s not about me. It’s not about fair or your feelings. It’s about maintaining a safe environment. That is the first last and only consideration. That’s all.
If you understand that. You accept it, and don’t make a big deal about it, and simply conduct yourself normally and appropriately and respectfully considering the circumstances. You contribute to the child’s safety, and add to it’s environment. I am grateful and appreciate your courtesy and understanding.
If you’re pissed off or offended, well… you’ve failed a test. You’re showing me that it’s about you. Your priorities and feelings are more important than the child’s wellbeing. With that attitude your presence detracts from the child’s safety and well-being. I don’t want you around, and your interractions are unwelcome.
If you’re a pedophile, you are going to go look for an easier target.
It’s a win-win-win for my daughter. I acknowledge that it’s unfair. But I did not make the world fair or unfair. It is what it is and I live in it.
If you want to fly in an airplane you have to take your shoes off.
If you want to shop at Walmart you have to know that once in a while the buzzer is going to go off and some toad is going to ask to look through your bag.
If you want to interract with children and contribute positively to their lives you need to know that you are reasonably going to be regarded with suspicion until you have demonstrated that you “get it.”
The cost to you is small. The cost to the child of a significant error is catastrophic. If you don’t realize that, don’t be near somebody else’s kids.
I think it pretty rare, myself.
I’ve watched my daughter being teased and fighting and crying. I’ve had her come to me to have me intercede with another child who is bothering her or making her mad, or otherwise offending her.
I haven’t, because I don’t want to be “that guy.” She has to fight her own battles, and deal with her own problems. That’s healthy and that’s a part of growing up. I work hard not to be overprotective. i want her to make mistakes and get hurt and have her feelings hurt and figure it out all by herself because that’s how you grow.
At the same time I do my best to ensure that the dangers and hurts and problems she faces are ones that she is equipped to handle.
Little boy steals her toy? That’s her problem.
Innapropriate attention or touching by an adult? My problem.
Best defense? Be conspicuously vigilant.
Nope, she loses too, because you are teaching her every man is a potential rapist. Let’s see how she resolves that conflict as an adult. Drugs and alcohol come to mind.
I’d be interested. Check your PMs.