“the display of secular holiday symbols decorations is permitted. Such symbols include, but are not limited to, Christmas trees, Menorahs, and the Star and the Crescent.”
Written policy on holiday displays for the Thomas Jefferson Magnet school in Flushing, NY.
WHATHAFAH?
I guess that only Christianity now must be driven from public sight. This is as bad as the California school that required children to memorize Muslim prayers.
While a menorah does not have the “holy” status that say, a cross, does in Christianity, I’d say that calling a menorah “secular” is a bit of a stretch.
Zev Steinhardt
I disagree. While the menorah has an undoubtedly religious purpose, it has been used so much as a generic “holiday” symbol that it’s fair to call it a secular symbol now.
A menorah is more analogous to a Christmas tree than it is to a cross. A Star of david would be analogous to a cross.
So, on the one hand, we have Mr. Zev Steinhart, whose posts can often be summed up via ;j , and a very well-informed and involved ;j , at that.
On the other hand, we have Bricker and Diogenes who are what sort of Jews?
Zev just said it wasn’t secular, he also said it wasn’t as “holy” as a cross. A Christmas tree isn’t really secular either.
Um, can we get a cite for this?
The seven-strand Menorah (not the nine-strand Hannukka one, a minor religious symbol of a minor holidy) is the centerpiece of the Grand Seal of the State of Israel, and thus is no more a religious symbol than the UK Union Jack, which is, after all, the combination of two crosses.
Just before someone asks.
Since you regard Zev Steinhart’s opinion as well-informed, I would ask him to rate my knowledge of halakhah based on what he’s seen me post these past few years.
Admittedly, the issue in the OP is more of US law than halakhah. But your comment doesn’t ask about knowledge of US law; it suggests something else is needed to credibly answer.
So - if you regard Zev as a credible source, I’d ask him to rate me as a source for your benefit, if he is willing to do so.
That is an excellent point, Allessan! Now you have me wondering if the menorah referred to in the OP is 7 or 9 stranded. I don’t really see the schools keeping up with that kind of accuracy; after all, the elementary schools in my former town (Marina, CA) still fly the older versions of many countries’ flags.
As Alessan pointed out that certain symbols can have secular and religious significance especially depending on the context in which they are displayed.
One thing though about the Union Jack (well really it should be called the Union Flag, as the Union Jack is the naval flag, but that’s a distinction that only the truly anal, such as myself, would make 
), it actually has THREE crosses on it, the crosses of SS George, Patrick and Andrew.
How about the “star and crescent”? IANA moslem, but that seems to have a very analgous role as the cross does in Christianity.
The menorah is certainly not a holy object or symbol. It’s right along with a yalmulka, it’s just an object. If a menorah falls to the ground or breaks, one shrugs. That’s very different from (say) a Torah scroll or a mezuzah…the latter being more akin to a cross or a creche or an icon.
Maybe not, but I wouldn’t celebrate the winter solstice without one.
Oh boy, I knew I should have kept my figurative mouth shut on this thred…
Bricker, I’m sorry, but I don’t recall your level of halachic knowledge off the top of my head. I simply don’t track that on a Doper-by-Doper basis. Sorry.
Zev Steinhardt
According to Cecil
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcrescent.html
The star and crescent seem to serve as a cultural identifier rather than a religious symbol (at least that’s how I’m interpreting his column).
'Twas my answer, not Cecil’s.
That was the point I was trying to make in that article, BrightNShiny.
I think whether or not the menorah or simply a “cross” is a secular representation or a religious representation is contingent upon the context in which it is used.
The display of every cross does not symbolically represent a particular religion or any religion at all. Rather, the cross has been used in a generic sense along side highways to mark the place where an individual lost their life in a fatal car accident.
A cross is positioned on the beach in Virginia to note the first English settlement in Virginia.
A menorah is not exclusively secular nor exclusively religious in its every use just as the cross. Several people here have given examples where the menorah is used in a secular setting for secular purpose, much like the use of crosses.
I might also add the U.S. Supreme Court has even held the use of the nativity scene in conjunction with menorahs and christmas trees is permissible as the nativity scene denotes the time of the season along with the other symbols and are not used solely or primarily for the purpose of expressing a religious faith.
Context in this situation is everything.
Sorry, Monty. My mistake.:smack:
I think those focusing on whether a menorah is holy are missing the point. It is not holy, as they note. But the issue here is religious, not holy.
I would tend to think that it is a religious symbol, as it derives from a religious observance. It is true that this same holiday is also celebrated or noted by a lot of people who are not too religious, but that does not mean that the symbol itself ceases to be religious. I also think a Christmas tree is a religious symbol, for similar reasons.
Monty, the menorah referred to in the OP would undoubtedly be a 9 strand one. The 7 strand one was used in the Temple, and was adopted as a symbol of the Israeli state. The 9 strand one is used for the Chanuka holiday.
And for Dogface: Bricker is more knowledgeable about Judaism and Jewish religious laws than about 95% of the Jewish Dopers. Maybe more. Sad but true.