Even within the category of “comments on a coworker’s appearance” there are pretty obvious lines. “I like the new hairstyle” is quite a bit different than “damn, you look hot in that skirt” or “great legs!”. I find it wisest to avoid appearance-related comments entirely (even seemingly inoccuous ones), except for coworkers that are also friends.
Have you ever had sexual harassment training?
Aren’t you the guy who wanted to know what other people did when a new hot woman started working at their place?
Are you sure you’ve had even the barest minimum of sexual harassment/workplace behavior training?
This type of person would be an example of a person where it would be reasonable to assume they might appreciate a complement on their appearance. HOWEVER, that highly depends on who is making the comment. A woman in her 20’s will be more likely to appreciate a comment from someone her own age than from a 50-year-old. Even if it’s the same comment with the same intent, there is an inherent creepy factor because of the age difference.
It’s also worse if there is any kind of seniority difference. With her equal, she may feel telling the person to back of if she feels uncomfortable. But if the person is higher up in the company (not just her boss), she may feel like she has to be agreeable.
It’s impossible to make any sort of blanket policies that works for everyone. No matter what is intended, there are always people who don’t pick up on body language and social clues. For example, I’m sure we’ve all be cornered by a “friendly” coworker who just yammers on and on about a bunch of crap while we stand there looking bored, not replying, with our arms crossed. Sometimes it’s even our manager who does it! I’m not going to tell my manager that he needs to wrap up his hour-long story about his kid’s little league game. He is totally clueless about my total disinterest. I’m guessing he thinks I must be enjoying it, but I have no idea why. So for those kinds of people, there needs to be absolute rules like “don’t complement the appearance of employees” because they aren’t aware enough to know what’s appropriate.
People certainly have a different personality than me. And I have seen people who choose to engage in the behavior you describe. That’s their choice. I don’t engage in it. It’s really really easy.
It’s getting colder so today I’m wearing a sweater. Someone said to me, “nice sweater.” I said, “thanks, how about those TPS reports?” (I didn’t really say TPS reports, but the actual reports that we are working on). Easy peasy.
I’m fortunate in that my place of employment doesn’t have a significant sexual harassment problem (I hope those words don’t come back to haunt me), but I did see an uptick in the number of women who made complaints about minor issues that they probably wouldn’t have made before the #metoo movement. And you know what? Good.
One of the minor complaints came from a women who did not appreciate the manner in which a coworker complimented the boots she was wearing that day. I can’t remember all the specifics at this time but it was the inflection of his voice and the wagging eyebrows which she believed was suggestive. This did not come from an employee she knew very well nor did she have any problems with him in the past but this made her feel a little uncomfortable so she came to talk to HR. I specifically asked her if the problem was the compliment and she said no. It was just the way it was made. Nobody was punished but we spoke with our male employee and told him to knock it off.
I am not at all worried about false accusations from the women I work with currently or from my past. Every single overnight business trip I’ve taken in the last three years has been with a female coworker -one nearly twenty years my junior- and many of them have been conventionally attractive. But my behavior towards them reflects the respect I hold for them so I’ve got nothing to worry about as far as I’m concerned.
But sometimes people aren’t rational when it comes to fears. But I’d be unhappy if a hiring manager turned away a good candidate simply because he had an irrational fear of a false accusation. Let’s ignore the fact that this kind of discrimination is illegal as hell. The company wants good candidates to fill open positions. We don’t want to drive away good internal and external candidates because they feel as though they won’t get a fair shake.
Yes, I have, and they really should stop annoying their co-workers and get back to work.
I get that we spend much of our time at work, but you are supposed to be working, not having a social gathering.
Maintaining a professional atmosphere is actually good for morale. Sure, you have the people that just want to talk, and are upset that they just don’t get to talk and talk and talk, but that’s not why they are there. And their talking can and does lower the morale of everyone that doesn’t want to hear it all the time.
Sure it is, and if they have their tie on backwards or have vomit on their shirt, you should say something.
If their co-worker thinks that if their skirt is shorter they will get more sales, they should keep such advice to themselves.
Did you read this? Can you quote the part where he says he got fired? I read it and saw that all he got was a private letter of reprimand. Did I skip a paragraph?
No you are right. The poster was almost 100% incorrect in his summary of the article.
This idea that while in the company of fellow firm members including at lunch, business dinners, conventions, etc. that conversation is 100% work related is just not credible.
Even interactions with customers in a front end service job such as what a cashier might have include non business related small talk. At least once a week someone who is currently working will comment on my hat or goofy looking sweater.
Covered already:
When in doubt, it’s the best policy.
If you are comfortable discussing private personal matters with co-workers, and they are amenable, then go for it. You may cross some lines, and may get in trouble, but chances are, assuming that you are not completely socially blind, you’ll be fine.
If you think that telling a woman that she looks good in a short skirt is a good idea, then keep your mouth shut if it isn’t about work.
One of the things about co-workers is that it’s not once a week. If it is okay to comment on your skirt line, or your neck line, or your bust size, then a woman will be getting such comments non-stop.
Man, I’m just imagining actually working with a group of folks who interacted in that fashion. Out at lunch with a coworker or on a 15 minute break and still fixated on tps reports.
Conversation isn’t 100% work related. It’s just not about physical appearance or clothing. I’ll talk about traffic, kid activities, and guns of course 
It helps if you hate people and are only working to get enough money to retire sooner
100% car-related, on the other hand… :mad:
Seriously, I spent a week at a training course with my coworkers - every conversation was 100% either work or cars. There was nothing else. Great way to dodge allegations of sexual impropriety, but as someone who has limits on how much they can handle work and who can maybe tell which car is an Audi and which car is a BMW if I’m looking at them from the side that has the logos on it, it was basically torture. There is a lesson here, though, and it’s not just “I’m bad at conversations and hate cars”.
So female is now inappropriate, wow, good to know.
How about woman, that still acceptable?
Well from my experience these “bad” topics tend to be started by women. They might ask if a man has a girlfriend or is dating or whatever. Or they might say he looks handsome in a particular outfit.
Then he asks the same things about her personal life or gives the same compliments on her looks and then he gets in trouble. I remember once talking with a female coworker about clubs and things we like doing but I got in trouble when I mistook this for an invitation and I asked her out.
I guess men need to have training that when a female coworker starts asking him personal questions he is to immediately tell her to stop.
Which is crazy when you think about it. What if there is an attraction? What if she wants to set him up with someone? Cant people talk about personal things?
I went to a bar a couple of weeks ago, sat at a long table with a mix of friends and unknowns.
A woman, ( is that a safe word this week), I didn’t know said I was a handsome man, just like that out of the blue.
I , just being a man, said thank you.
I didn’t realize at the time I was being sexually harassed, and objectified.
But now I feel dirty about the whole experience.
Was it some how my fault , had I dressed inappropriately, too provocatively ?
It haunts me now, I can barely sleep.
Now thanks to many of you I realize my character has been besmirched, and sullied.
I don’t know how I can carry on.
Can I sue someone?
O, the horror, the horror.
Unless your job is sitting in a bar, then that is unrelated to workplace harassment.