I cannot speak for a complete defense of Moore; however, I do consider people who boo at time of recognition, to be the real jerks.
Many on the right do throw a fit when we hear the stories of right wing speakers being heckled or booed by the left when they go to campuses to speak, In that case, I do thing the few on the left who do that are indeed the assholes, the speaker has the right to say his piece. Now, as for the Oscars I see that the academy gave the winners permission to say their piece; the ASSHOLES in the audience should have been quiet.
And beagledave: I also saw the telecast: when a shot of the crowd appeared, none on the shot looked to be booing, I still think the boos where not coming from the majority of those present.
How many times are you going to selectively quote me and completely fail to get the point of what I’m saying? Let me try one last time to make this simple for you. Remember: READING IS FUNDAMENTAL. Try to read to the end, and process it somewhat before you hit the “quote reply” button:
If another country music star, let’s say, Travis Tritt, were to step up and use an inappropriate forum to single-mindedly and irrelevantly praise the President and the war against Iraq, I would probably say nothing. That’s mostly because I don’t tend to follow such events. Plus, what with the freedom of speech, they’re entitled to their opinion, a fact that was never in question.
If a poster on one of these message boards stepped up and started a “Travis Tritt = ass” thread commenting on how inappropriate it was for Tritt to say such things, I would again probably say nothing. As others have pointed out, freedom of speech goes both ways, and your right to say anything also guarantees anyone else the right to say you’re an ass.
NOW, if another poster (hint: this represents you) replied to said thread by saying, “The only reason you are against Tritt’s words is because you’re for Saddam and against our troops!” That’s when I would step up and call him/her an asshole. WHAT I OBJECT TO is the simple-minded idea that anyone who believes X must automatically believe Y. For example, your implication that the only reason people could object to fat-ass Moore’s self-important grandstanding are extremist, war-mongering right-wingers. That if Charleton Heston or some other conservative celebrity went up on stage and spouted off belligerent, cheap-shot nonsense, we’d all support it because it fits our agenda.
And if you can wrap your little ten-watt brain around that train of logic without making another post saying that if I’m anti-Michael Moore then I must be pro-Bush and pro-War and anti-Freedom of Speech, you’ll be a man, my son.
To reiterate: The complaint is about Moore’s being an asshole, not about his “politics.” Not that you asked, because you assumed that you could instantly discern my entire worldview based on my objection to one pompous fat-ass, but I’m against the war. I’m against Hussein and the corrupt regime in Iraq. I’m for the commandment that says we shouldn’t kill people. I’m for the United Nations and against nationalism. I support our troops, by wanting to them to return home safely. I’m against the current US administration and will be happy to see them voted out of office in the next election. I’m for the electoral college, which if understood by people would eliminate the inaccuracies of a popular vote.
In other words, I have opinions that, while not earth-shattering, are reasonably well thought-out and might seem contradictory to anyone who can only think in terms of extremism. Moore is such a left-wing caricature that he might as well have come out on stage hugging a tree – that is at best a disservice to the people who have a genuine protest to make. And that’s the last thing I’m saying on the matter, because I’ve already given that pompous blowhard and his followers more attention than they deserve.
beagledave, at the risk of making Diogenes the Cynic’s argument for him, none of the stars mentioned in your link specifically criticized Bush with the exception of Moore.
I guess criticizing the decision to invade Iraq seems like “criticizing GWB” to me…but you’re right that they don’t focus as much on GWB the person as Moore did.
Basically, yeah, that was my point. It seems like what really gets up the noses of conservatives isn’t so much a respectful opposition to the war, but specific criticism of Bush.
Are really asserting that only people in Hollywood watch the Oscars? 65% (last I heard) of American people support the war.
The people in the auditorium may have been booing because of it’s delivery, they may have been booing because of the content, but mainstream america certainly has a problem with the delivery AND the content. And your streaker line is still way out in left field, as a streaker isn’t stating ANY opinion on ANY subject, it’s SOLEY an attention-grabbing stunt.
I only watch the Oscars when I want to see a bunch of drug-rehabilitated, mumble-mouthed, exhibitionist, washed-out, ex-superstars stumble around, bump into the furniture, babble nonsense, wear ridiculous clothing, and show off their weird, fairly-tale, inbred, vacuous lifestyle.
Ozzy can’t even sing.
What? The Oscars?. Oh. I thought you said Osbourne’s. No matter – same comments apply.
To think that The Oscars is somehow important, or has standards of appropriate behavior is to ignore that it is a rented veneer covering the real-life cesspool that is Hollywood and the Oscar system. A bunch of un-named, unknown Hollywood insiders vote for someone – and we wait breathlessly to see how they voted. Who cares? Ben Affleck could urinate on the camera for all I care. Save your outrage for something important.
The assertion was made that Moore was being “courageous” by protesting the war. Protesting the war in front of a Hollywood audience is about as “courageous” as praising Jesus at a Promise Keepers convention.
He was being booed…there and here… for being “inappropriate”.
I love the image of all the posters who objected to Moore’s speech skulking through the streets and stroking a videotape of the Oscar telecast cooing, “Preeeeciousss, my preeciousss…”
There DO seem to be an undue amount of respect for a cheesy awards ceremony being put forth here. Could it be the REAL reason for all the outrage is Moore’s political stance? I’d say so. Go back and read the text of Moore’s speech. Everything he said seems quite reasonable to me. Bush is a coke-snorting, financial-cheating, AWOL, warmongering chicken hawk stealer of elections.
A few years ago, when every conservative on Earth was using every media venue imaginable to tell all the world, including the little kiddies, about Bill Clinton’s blowjob, I didn’t hear all that much outrage from anybody but a few thoughtful folks.
Yeah, I’m sure Moore was the only Democrat in the Kodak Theater last night. You know, that place where the booing occurred.
It’s entirely possible to agree with Moore’s views and still believe he behaved like a jackass. Had I acted in the manner Moore did last night, my mother would have climbed on stage and slapped me silly. She firmly believes that if someone offers you an award and you accept it, the only appropriate response is “Thank you” (or some variant thereof). It’s called “manners.”
You weren’t listening hard enough, then. James Carville was a near-fixture on every talk show in the universe.
Whether anyone agrees with Moore or no is irrelevant. He was rude. He was rude within his rights – I mean, no one’s going to drag him off to jail or anything – but he was undeniably rude.
If someone wants to believe that rudeness is a virtue, that’s their opinion. Personally, I am furious with Bush for dragging the name of America through the dirt, for calling my favorite religion a cult, for sending my personal friends to go and die for whatever his agenda IS…
But Moore’s still rude. Wrong or right, there is a time and place for his behavior. I put him in the same category as Limbaugh and the like – whether I agree with his policies or not, he’s a nasty hateful cocky little shit.
And the Clinton thing disgusted me then and disgusts me now. I don’t CARE what kind of sex anyone but my nearest and dearest have…and children certainly don’t need to lose complete faith in the government any earlier than, say, fourteen years old.
My god. Diogene’s the Cynic, are you simply mad? I’ve seen cattle with brainworm that were more coherent than you. You’re making me support the war more and more with each of your posts, and that makes me feel dirty. Please stop.
And minty green, I’ve respected you for a while now, and I still do, but I think you’re not paying close enough attention to what people are saying.
As to the actual topic of the thread - I didn’t watch the Oscars. I find it quite believable that Michael Moore acted in an assholish manner. This doesn’t really rankle me much, since I don’t care for the Oscars. When I saw a clip of his speech on the news last night, I just rolled my eyes. That’s pretty much all it deserved, I think.
I didn’t suggest he was. Though, if God exists and has the sick sense of humor attributed to Him, who knows?
Diogenes suggested the audience should boo next time Bush mentions Jesus at the State of the Union. To anyone unaware of the plot to protest this mingling of church and state by an act of childish rudeness, it would appear thusly:
Bush: We need to turn to Jesus-
Audience: Boo!
Churchy McVoter watching on TV: Our elected official just booed our Lord Jesus Christ!
Who would really want to bother with making a lot of public appearences to explain to pissed-off constituents that you really protecting the best interests of the country by insulting their religious beliefs?
I’m listening just fine, thanks. People are complaining that Moore was an asshole because he bashed the President and the war on Iraq at–gasp!–the Oscar ceremony.
Big. Fucking. Deal.
I’m also listening to the rationalization that this isn’t really about the political content of Moore’s speech at all, it’s all about the decorum of the Oscars. I’m listening to it, and I’m rejecting it. To the extent that it’s a special rule for entertainers that they can mouth off anywhere except awards shows, that’s just fucking stupid. To the extent that it’s a complaint that such things are inappropriate to the particular award ceremont of the Oscars, that is especially just fucking stupid, given the long history of political statements by Oscar winners and the express authorization of the people who run the show.
To the extent that it’s just a bunch of pro-war crybabies getting their panties in a bunch because the mean liberal fat guy insulted them, I think it’s fucking hilarious. Nice job, Mike!
