[QUOTE=Windwalker]
No way was it a joke gone wrong, but I think I’ll have to agree with the poster that said he was probably just trying to hurt the heckler as much as he could.
…
Of course, Richards could be a racist, but it looks to me more like a deliberate attempt to say something hateful.
[/quote]
I’m not following this. Why would Richards “just” trying to be hateful and hurtful preclude him from being racist? I thought that was how the most overt forms of racism presented themselves. As attempts to hurt people in a hateful manner, by seizing upon their race.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
I’m not following this. Why would Richards “just” trying to be hateful and hurtful preclude him from being racist? I thought that was how the most overt forms of racism presented themselves. As attempts to hurt people in a hateful manner, by seizing upon their race.
[/QUOTE]
I can kind of see what he might have been getting at. I’m thinking: Richards is furious. He wants to lash out. He latches onto the only thing he’s reasonably sure of: the guy is black. I’m not saying what he said is OK, I’m just saying maybe it wasn’t really an issue of the guy being black. If the heckler had been, say, a severely obese man in plain sight, or someone with terrible acne, or whatever, Richards probably would have made some insensitive comments about that. None of which excuses it. I just can’t picture Richards owning a white hood. I think the racial slurs were a product of him grasping for whatever he could find.
[QUOTE=yojimbo]
Sorry if this has been linked to already but let’s see how a great comedian deals with a situation like this. Hicks loses it here and is very offensive indeed. He still remains funny and comes out on top.
[QUOTE=yojimbo]
Sorry if this has been linked to already but let’s see how a great comedian deals with a situation like this. Hicks loses it here and is very offensive indeed. He still remains funny and comes out on top.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
The use of nigga by David Chappelle and a bunch of overpaid rappers on BET bears no resemblence to Richards’ usage of nigger. You might as well consider the terms homophones along the lines of hare and hair. I could appreciate what you’re saying if Richards was taking flak for saying something like “Barak Obama is a badass nigga.” But that wasn’t what happened. What he actually said was akin to saying “Barak Obama is a nigger.”
The intent is what made it offensive, not the word itself.
[/QUOTE]
The intent may not be the same, but *saying * it isn’t offensive doesn’t make it non-offensive. Contrary to what some people think, the word has by no means evolved into a universal term of endearment, in either white or black society. It is always offensive to me; whether it’s used in black-on-black conversation, friendly, good-natured ribbing contexts, or specifically to offend.
Some words don’t lose their sting, no matter how badly you want them to. I don’t care if his *mother * is black; you don’t assume an emotionally charged word like nigger/niggah will be accepted by anyone in your audience.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
I can kind of see what he might have been getting at. I’m thinking: Richards is furious. He wants to lash out. He latches onto the only thing he’s reasonably sure of: the guy is black. I’m not saying what he said is OK, I’m just saying maybe it wasn’t really an issue of the guy being black. If the heckler had been, say, a severely obese man in plain sight, or someone with terrible acne, or whatever, Richards probably would have made some insensitive comments about that. None of which excuses it. I just can’t picture Richards owning a white hood. I think the racial slurs were a product of him grasping for whatever he could find.
[/QUOTE]
“Asshole” would have worked.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
I just can’t picture Richards owning a white hood.
[/QUOTE]
I know you’re not being literal, but I’m going to say this anyway: You don’t have to own a hood in order to be racist. And you don’t have to worship Hitler to be anti-Semitic, either.
While I understand that people say crazy things when they are mad, those are still their ideas. Perhaps he didn’t mean to say the things he did. He did it in the heat of the moment, obviously. Just like Mel Gibson did. I just don’t see how that momentary lapse of control changes anything.
If a comedian attacked a fat person with language intended to dehumanize and humiliate them, I’d have no problem assuming that their comments reflect how they view fat people.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
“Asshole” would have worked.
[/QUOTE]
But “asshole” doesn’t hurt unless it’s used with a level of razor-sharp wit that Richards clearly doesn’t possess. Richards wanted to hurt the guy, and he grabbed the sharpest implement within his reach. It makes him a dick, but it doesn’t make him a racist any more than I would be a homosexual if I grabbed a guy’s nuts in a fight.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It is always offensive to me; whether it’s used in black-on-black conversation, friendly, good-natured ribbing contexts, or specifically to offend.
[/quote]
Well, as a black person, I can say “nigga” doesn’t usually offend me. It embarrasses me more than anything else, because it sounds ignorant, crass, and unenlightened. But this reaction varies. When David Chappelle uses it in his routines, it doesn’t bother me at all. Probably because the term is not used as a slur when it comes out of his mouth. It’s used much like “dude” is used by other people. But when I hear teenagers on the train use it, I want to slap them upside the head a few times, even if they are using in the “dude” context.
I never use it myself. I never use “bitch” affectionately either, but I don’t have a problem with other women using it that way.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Really, you think Seinfeld was apologetic? Here’s what he said:
With the exception of the statement that “I’m sure Michael is also sick,” it doesn’t sound to me like Seinfeld is trying to make any defense for it and he called it “extremely offensive.” My take on it was that Seinfeld sounded kind of shocked and confused. I think he’s already got more money than God so I don’t know if he’s really that concerned about DVD sales. I think hos reaction sounds pretty sincere.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I didn’t state it clearly. I read it as Seinfeld apologizing for the act, not excusing or defending Richard’s behavior. I’m a cynic when it comes to rich people and celebrities. Having more money than god is meaningless to the rich, for whom “enough” has no definition.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
But “asshole” doesn’t hurt unless it’s used with a level of razor-sharp wit that Richards clearly doesn’t possess. Richards wanted to hurt the guy, and he grabbed the sharpest implement within his reach. It makes him a dick, but it doesn’t make him a racist any more than I would be a homosexual if I grabbed a guy’s nuts in a fight.
[/QUOTE]
You’re right…he wanted to hurt him. And being a nigger, in Richards’ opinion, is the worst thing a person can be, so therefore, more hurtful than anything else. That logic DOES make him a racist.
[QUOTE=pool]
In the end they are all just words it is up to you how to react to them. I’ve seen black people not fly off the handle after being called a nigger by a white person. And the audience member clearly stayed pretty calm t
[/QUOTE]
There’s something to this, I suppose, but there are lines you don’t cross. I have to relate that many years ago in the military I was working a crew doing a job in Guam putting up miles of chain link fencing and barbed wire. It was hot, nasty, sweaty, chain-gang-like hard fucking labor. I was the crew leader, but was right in the dirt doing the work. You become friends with people in those situations.
One of my crew was a black man and we became good friends. One night we were having a few drinks and he started in with “I’m only on this crew cuz I’m black and y’all just treat niggers like slaves.” It pissed me off, and I said “Y’know, I’m right down in the dirt doing the exact same work you’re doing, sweating just as hard, aching just as bad, so I guess in the end I’m just a nigger too.” There was a moment of stunned silence from both of us, then he nodded his said and said “I’ll give you that.” After that, and years later when I ran into him, he always said “Hey man, you still a nigger?” I would always joke with him, but here’s the thing: Even with this closeness between us, I never felt that I had the right to address him in that fashion. It’s a line you DON’T FUCKING CROSS!
[QUOTE=you with the face]
Well, as a black person, I can say “nigga” doesn’t usually offend me. It embarrasses me more than anything else, because it sounds ignorant, crass, and unenlightened. But this reaction varies. When David Chappelle uses it in his routines, it doesn’t bother me at all. Probably because the term is not used as a slur when it comes out of his mouth. It’s used much like “dude” is used by other people. But when I hear teenagers on the train use it, I want to slap them upside the head a few times, even if they are using in the “dude” context.
I never use it myself. I never use “bitch” affectionately either, but I don’t have a problem with other women using it that way.
[/QUOTE]
Well, to each his own. As I said, anyone who uses it within earshot of anyone who may not consider it a term of endearment is not only taking the huge risk of offending, but is also fanning the fire by attempting to take the sting out and giving the “there are black folks and then there are niggers” crowd free reign to let the world know which people of color are acceptable and which aren’t based on color. I don’t want it to sting less. It certainly makes it easier to distinguish who’s who with regard to racism.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
As I said, anyone who uses it within earshot of anyone who may not consider it a term of endearment is not only taking the huge risk of offending, but is also fanning the fire by attempting to take the sting out and giving the “there are black folks and then there are niggers” crowd free reign to let the world know which people of color are acceptable and which aren’t based on color.
[/quote]
Honestly, anyone who justifies calling someone a nigger like Richards did because Chappelle and others refer to each other as niggas is probably someone who is just aching to find any and every excuse to act out their racist impulses. It bothers me that people are attempting to defend Richards because “black people call themselves nigga”, as if the fact that Richards had an hateful intent has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. That has everything to do with this issue.
The whole empowerment thing may have been in place years ago, but nowadays I think “nigga” exists because it’s become a part of the urban slang culture. “Nigga” may have evolved from “nigger” but they are two different words because of how they are used. “Nigga” has absolutely nothing to do with why Richards said what he said.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
You’re right…he wanted to hurt him. And being a nigger, in Richards’ opinion, is the worst thing a person can be, so therefore, more hurtful than anything else. That logic DOES make him a racist.
[/QUOTE]
IYO. Or he could simply have chosen the words he felt would have the biggest effect on their target.
I don’t know Michael Richards, I’ll never know him, nor do I care to know him. Thus, without corroborating evidence and more of a reason to care, I’m not going to label him either way.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
Honestly, anyone who justifies calling someone a nigger like Richards did because Chappelle and others refer to each other as niggas is probably someone who is just aching to find any and every excuse to act out their racist impulses. It bothers me that people are attempting to defend Richards because “black people call themselves nigga”, as if the fact that Richards had an hateful intent has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. **That has everything to do with this issue. **
[/quote]
Agreed.
They may be considered two different words in some circles, but there’s no tried-and-true way to determine which use it is sometimes. Some people use their new-found verbal freedom as a free pass to say the word when there’s no affection attached to it. You just don’t know.
I agree with those who say that you can definitely call someone a nigger without being racist and actually thinking that of them, just as you can call someone a cunt, bitch, faggot, etc. when mad at them, to piss them off, even if you don’t think that of them. And let’s be honest, asshole doesn’t have the weight of nigger- in your maddest moment, if you call someone an asshole, that’s pretty comical.
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
I can kind of see what he might have been getting at. I’m thinking: Richards is furious. He wants to lash out. He latches onto the only thing he’s reasonably sure of: the guy is black. I’m not saying what he said is OK, I’m just saying maybe it wasn’t really an issue of the guy being black. If the heckler had been, say, a severely obese man in plain sight, or someone with terrible acne, or whatever, Richards probably would have made some insensitive comments about that. None of which excuses it. I just can’t picture Richards owning a white hood. I think the racial slurs were a product of him grasping for whatever he could find.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. Where do I start with this? First, I get heckling is annoying when you’re addressing the UN, but I get the sense that heckling is part of the terrain when you’re doing comedy. So you need to get back to your schtick, not drag it out by continuing back and forth - unless, in fact, that is part of your schtick, and you’re good at it.
If you watch Def Comedy Jam or watch Showtime at the Apollo, you’ll know that a lot of Black comedians talk shit about audience members. It’s part of the act. But I don’t recall anyone just saying, “You’re a cracker,” or “You’re a nigger.”
What does it say about Richards when a guy’s been heckling him for some time, and the only thing he notices is that he’s Black? Not that he has an annoying squeaky voice, or he’s cheap as hell because he’s in the cheap seats, but that he’s Black? And that’s it.
You say nothing excuses his words, but then you state that he probably doesn’t own a white hood. As ywtf has noted, that’s hardly the only manifestation of racism that’s out there. I’m less concerned with the Klan than I am with people who keep their racist attitudes under wraps for the most part, then thwart the progress of others and their humanity with shit like this.
[QUOTE=D_Odds]
IYO. Or he could simply have chosen the words he felt would have the biggest effect on their target.
I don’t know Michael Richards, I’ll never know him, nor do I care to know him. Thus, without corroborating evidence and more of a reason to care, I’m not going to label him either way.
[/QUOTE]
Well, it certainly sounded like you were labeling him non-racist in your earlier post. It’s possible he’s not, but he’ll have a hard time convincing me of that any time soon.