As individual human beings with our own identities and stories, rather than as an undifferentiated mass of ‘foreigner’ that is and always will be inimical to their society.
… so if they assume that someone Asian looking speaks Mandarin (as happened all the time to my friend’s girlfriend (they went to China as tourists, he is Anglo and speaks Mandarin, she is Asian and doesn’t)) - is that a “deliberate refusal to think about her as human being”?
I know this seems odd if you haven’t lived it, but that’s what’s so insidious about this - it really does cut a man to the quick, bit by bit, as the incidents reach double, triple, quadruple digits, day after day. A little drip-drip-drop can eventually wear away a mountain.
But yes. If a person makes assumptions about someone based on elements of their physical appearance that they have no control over, then yes - that person is not thinking about them as an individual human being.
I bet you do that every day, multiple times (like everyone does). And probably don’t even notice it.
Bzzt. What you are advocating is unjust and part of the reason that USAian society will probably be overtaken.
I don’t put a whole lot of stock in the polls here, for a lot of reasons, but I think there’s a flawed assumption in your post, here. You reference the poll results “even after all the arguments,” but there’s two problems with that: firstly, once you vote in one of these polls, you can’t change your opinion. And secondly - and this is mostly an assumption, but I think a fairly likely one - I suspect most people who vote in polls vote after reading the OP, but not the whole thread. So the quality of the arguments being presented here is not likely to be reflected in the poll results one way or the other.
Also, the “hypersensitive” option is polling less than five percent above the various “It’s real” and “It’s real but…” options. So it’s not exactly like you guys are crushing it in here. Assuming the results of the poll are in anyway meaningful. Which I don’t think they are.
All that being said, based on his more recent posts, no, I don’t think Habeed is particularly representative of the “hypersensitive” side of the debate.
I have no doubt that many people are using the most extreme and least defensible accusations of micro-aggressions to dismiss the entire concept of micro-aggressions. I don’t think that reflects particularly on the validity of the arguments made in favor of the concept - or if it does, you’re going to have to accept that Habeed’s arguments are a valid reason to dismiss your arguments.
I don’t think that changing the name from “micro-aggressions” to something prettier would effect that one way or the other.
I don’t think you are correct on that. I have no idea why the Left is so bad at marketing but they really are laughably bad at it and deserve the criticism for it. I believe a lot of it is intentional to stir up controversy but it backfires more often than helps their pet ideals.
I already said that there may be some grain of truth into what people are complaining about but that doesn’t mean that the whole idea and the theory behind it is sound. Failed ideas are ubiquitous in all the sciences and especially the social sciences. The most academically dishonest thing that anyone can do is to ignore criticisms of their pet theories and terms once the legitimate criticisms start coming in. Even if there is some validity to the argument, there may be some severe problems with it as well that need to addressed and trigger a rethinking of the whole idea and the approach behind it.
In this case the name is extremely important because there is no ‘aggression’ involved in most of the examples given so we know the whole concept is more political than scientific. I invite anyone that thinks the word ‘aggression’ is appropriate to defend that statement here and now. You may argue that it is a new, hybrid term that doesn’t depend on its component parts but I don’t believe that and neither do you. If that were the case, we could just as easily call it anything including ‘non-felonious hate crimes’ and then object when people balk at it because that is a new term that doesn’t relate to actual hate crimes and the incidental reference to criminality was just a convenient style choice.
I don’t buy it. You might but the vast majority of people do not. The Left’s tactic of using divisive terms to get a reaction rather than cooperation is counterproductive.
Found it! Whoa, I thought I saw them all, but that was gone from the TV by the late 50s, for good reason. Nothing micro about it.
Well, yes, it does. Think of the “Death of a Thousand Cuts,” or just the phrase used earlier, “Shit gets old.” Annoyance accumulates.
From my lofty position :rolleyes: I must admit to having been momentarily taken aback when not shown the deference I subconsciously expect, but I am usually much more disturbed when I get it. I lived in Virginia in the early 60s, but I was not born there, and I remember how sickened I was as a little kid to see the one “Whites Only” water fountain that hadn’t been fixed because I was raised better than that. The blatant racism affected me, and I still wince when a black person calls me “sir” or holds the door for me, even though they are probably just being polite–or forgot my name. Part of me wants to scream, “Don’t degrade yourself by deferring to me,” but instead I call the person “sir” or “ma’am” and hold the next door for them, sometimes too extravagantly–once a Virginia cavalier, always a Virginia cavalier. 
Why is that unjust, Cheddar? Isn’t one of a boss’s most basic duties the well-being of his or her subordinates? If a boss is deliberately doing something that their subordinates don’t like, and in no way improves the company’s performance or profitability or requires any extra effort on their part to curtail, doesn’t that indicate a basic failure to provide competent leadership? Would you, Cheddar, as a hypothetical CEO, hire somebody for middle-management who gets off on power-trips over the employees? What other failures of moral character might that betray?
If I do, I try to make sure that those assumptions are not diminuating, insulting, or dehumanizing. If they are, I try not to express them or act on them. And if I do so anyway, then I try to make things right for them.
Speaking as another white person who used to live in Japan, I wanted to say that I was not upset or offended by your post. I disagree with your wording to a small degree, as I think the main reason it was usually easy for me to laugh off being treated as a foreigner in Japan was because I was in fact a foreigner in Japan and had placed myself in this situation with an understanding of what this meant. My lifetime of experience as a member of the dominant racial group in the US probably didn’t hurt, but I’d say the main thing was that I had voluntarily put myself in the position of being an obvious minority but also knew this was only going to be for a couple of years at most.
I hope that the experience of being a racial minority in Japan has made me more sensitive to the experiences of racial minorities in the US, but I am also aware that being treated like a foreigner when you are a foreigner isn’t the same thing as being treated like a foreigner in your own country.
This is actually a quote from monstro’s professor right? It IS the exact argument that those who endorse option 1 would make: “I said nothing that I see as offensive and I cannot see how it is reasonable to be offended by it, so your reaction to it is your problem. Apologize? Aint going to happen. Just because you label something as a micro-aggression does not make it so or require the rest of us to take it seriously.”
If this is not complete hypocrisy then I do not know what is.
Again, I think I should take the offense received by others seriously, whether or not it makes sense to me that offense was taken, even if it quite frankly sometimes seems very crazy that offense is taken. You agree that I should … you just don’t think you should.
No monstro I am not playing a game and not trying to “score points” (and what you can do with that accusation cannot be said in this forum but any offense taken by you would not be unintentional). I am talking about something very serious in complete honesty. I completely get that the sheer volume of the (perceived) “paper cuts” makes your experience different than mine … like every other stress a little is no problem but critical masses can be hit. And this complete lack of self-awareness on you and your sister’s parts that you react in the exact same way that you condemn when similarly challenged deflates your argument mightily.
You can lecture me when you are able to demonstrate you have an understanding of what you’re talking about. Until you can show me you understand and you’re not just jerking your knee, I’m not going to really give you another moment’s attention.
nm
I think going to any situation knowing what might be thrown your way makes a big difference in how it affects you, no doubt.
It is not hypocritical to dismiss something that is completely without merit.
That was kind of where my thoughts were going when I was reading Scholar’s posts, except maybe a little harsher. They were along the lines of "Well, you ARE a foreigner; you can’t really expect them to treat you like one of their own, and unless you’ve lived there for decades and decades, the best you can really hope for is that they’re enthusiastic about your foreignness, and not treating you with hostility and suspicion.
In a sense, what you’re describing is about the best you can hope for, and something you might could be thankful for, rather than something to be overly sensitive and butthurt about.
To a large degree, this microaggression stuff is as much about how YOU (the generic ‘YOU’, not Scholar in particular) perceive it, as well as the actual behaviors actions and words that constitute them. And there lies the problem- the other person involved may have the noblest and gentlest of intentions, and YOU are perceiving this as a microaggression, which seems to me to be YOUR problem, not the other person’s. And that’s why people tend to discount them; if I compliment someone and choose words that to me, aren’t offensive, and aren’t controversial, and the other person chooses to interpret my compliment as some kind of microaggression, I fail to see where I’ve gone wrong- I was trying to compliment someone, and managed to catch the invisible tripwire of someone else’s mental landmine. You can’t account for that, without either knowing where their tripwires are (and they’re invisible), or in not saying anything to anyone at all.
Well, what I think everyone needs to face up to is that others cannot perceive our intentions and that even with the best of intentions we may manage to do something harmful.
I actually just got back from a professional conference where I attended a session about microaggressions towards students with disabilities. The panelists had plenty of examples of students being discouraged, or even outright prevented, from taking certain classes or participating in certain activities because well-intentioned educators assumed they couldn’t handle it and wanted to “save them” from the disappointment of failure. The panelists stressed that in most cases these people meant well and didn’t see themselves as discriminating against disabled students, but this didn’t change the fact that they were in a very real way making it harder for the students to pursue their goals.
Do you think it’s acceptable to treat immigrants as “not one of our own”? I don’t. Someone who chooses this country is one of us. One of mine, at least.
If I tell you that you sure look nice for a white person, would you be bothered by that? Or would you accept it as a compliment because it is obvious I intended it to be? What if you heard that comment all the time?
No one “chooses” to be bothered by something. That’s crazy. Now, people can perhaps “choose” how they behave in response. Sometimes an inartful question or comment can be deflected by a witty joke. Or sometimes someone can actually be assertive and let someone know there’s a better way to say whatever it is they want to say. Or they can just suck it up and let it slide off their back… But if someone tells you that something bothers them and they go through the trouble of explaining why, telling them that that feeling is a “choice” is invalidating and insensitive, especially if you have never experienced that feeling before.
I don’t agree that voluntarily subjecting yourself to a “foreigner” position means you shouldn’t feel bothered by certain things. Minorities subject themselves to all kinds of experiences where they are the “only one” all the time. And we have a choice to do this. I could have chosen to stay in my predominately black hometown, where I wouldn’t have to encounter white folks unless I absolutely had to. Plenty of minorities never stray out of their cultural enclaves. But instead years ago I chose to insert myself in predominately white, predominately male environments. And I put up with a lot of stuff because I simply have to since otherwise I would be complaining all the time. But it sure would be nice for folks to understand why I might not laugh so loud at their jokes or why I might be more sensitive or less easy-going than some other person. Or why I may not say “thank you” in a sincere way when they pay me a compliment. And none of this is my fault. Until you walk in my shoes, you can’t say you’d be any other way. Don’t lecture me on what my “choices” are until you are forced to make those same “choices” day after day.