I could pull up some old threads and show you what I’m talking about, if you doubt my observation.
I was trying (and failing) to be microaggressively witty. I know exactly what you’re talking about.
+1
I feel your assault on there spelling is another example of a microaggression.
Their spelling.
As the first to introduce the incorrectly spelled version into this thread - my appologies!
One of the most insidious microaggressions is where everyone assumes because you are a ‘straight white male’, you must live a charmed life free of adversity and prejudice.
You do realize us ‘straight while males’ are not one amorphous mass of privileged humanity, right? right?
Microagressions in my case are stuff like"That’s a really healthy lunch, your wife treats you really well!" or “Oh, your wife is away? You poor thing! How will you eat? What shape will the house be in when she gets back?”
I’m not a f**ing child that can’t take care of myself, thanks. I make my own food, and clean the house on a regular basis, in fact.
Other ‘straight while males’ may face micro-aggressions based on their ethnicity or education or religion, just like everyone else. See stereotyped white males in 3/4 of the male cast of Big Bang Theory, for instance.
I don’t think I made any of those assumptions. Nor do they address the point that I was making, which is about microaggressions and the balance of power in social relations.
The thing is, there’s a lot of people who aren’t straight, white, and male, but still fall into at least one of those categories. I’m white and male, for example, but not straight. And while there is some petty bullshit I’ve had to deal with because I’m white and male, they absolutely pale in comparison to the amount of petty bullshit I have to deal with for being gay. And I’m still pretty lucky in that regard, compared to the stuff a lot of other gay people have had to put up with.
So, when a straight white guy says that it’s hard being a straight white guy, too, I get more than a little :dubious: about it, because I know what it’s like to be two of those things, and it’s absolutely fucking cake compared to the stuff that comes up in my life because I’m not the third thing.
But I agree with you that Big Bang Theory is a fucking awful show.
It always gets weird when it comes to white people bringing up dealing with bullshit. White privilege is alive and well, so any time someone complains about getting crap for being white, they’re just dismissed out of hand. I know there can be serious problems especially if you’re lucky enough to be the minority in a particular neighborhood (like a friend of mine that grew up getting the shit kicked out of him almost daily because he’s white), but it seems for most of us that just isn’t the case. We’re lucky enough to be the default, the “normal” group, that snide comments or minor prejudice just seems like it shouldn’t matter.
But it does, when you’re talking about an individual and their specific experiences. How does one talk about that without coming across as a whiny asshole? Serious question, I really don’t know. “Hey, we’re all treated badly and it’s never okay” seems like it should be a relevant conversation at some point.
Does anyone find the excuse that some instances are innocent ignorance STILL jerkiness behavior even if it is not intended to be intentional?
I just can’t remember a time I have ever asked a stranger where they are from, and then no where are you or your parents REALLY from? Or asked someone with a kid who isn’t identical to them whats the deal adoption?
Because it is RUDE AS SHIT, and none of my business. Even if someone asks this innocently, it is still rude as shit. I don’t see why they get a pass.
Exchange I had with my boss, a trauma surgeon with relatively dark skin and a decidedly unSouthern accent, some years back:
Me: There’s a reporter on the phone who’s doing a bio on you for the campus paper. She wants to know where you’re from.
Doctor: [chilly] The United States.
Me: Uh, okay . . . I think she’s asking. . . .
Doctor: I KNOW what she’s asking. Tell her The United States.
I gave her the answer, and she stammered and stuttered then accepted it. In retrospect, I feel like a douche for relaying her question to him. In my defense, I was young, and I thought a lot about that exchange.
re: microaggressions against white people. I was listening to a Pakistani comedian today, and he told the story of getting out of his car somewhere and some white dude shouting, “Hey Kumar, where’s Harold!” at him, and how it pissed him off because there was no way for him to come back at the dude. For two reasons:
- The comment was racist, and he’s not racist and doesn’t want to come back in kind; and
- Even if he was racist, it’s really hard to be racist against white people. What’s he gonna say: “Oh, I’m Kumar? Well, YOU must be . . . every character in every other movie!”
So yeah. You might catch some microaggressions. We all do. For each individual one, it’s shrugoffable. The point is that they wear you down.
(As a teacher, though, I think about this a lot. It’s real easy to have three or four kids in a class with a rough home life or for some other reason a foul attitude, who will roll their eyes and smack their tongues and grumble shit about you as a near-constant thing, and for whom you’ve got to embark on a constant campaign to instill manners in them. That’s not behavior I’d ever accept from a co-worker, and it can wear you down.)
I didn’t ever say that “because someone else in the world has it worse, a person is not allowed to complain”. Good straw-man argument, though.
Does complaining about the fact that a box refers to “pregnant women” actually make it better for anyone? Or whining about the phrase “you guys”? Or setting up the afore-mentioned anonymous, online, geo-tagged microaggression reporting system? What I see in these things looks more like deliberately starting fights about trivial topics, and unnecessary fights don’t “make it better” for anyone. They make it worse for everyone.
I recall the story of Omar Mahmood, who wrote a satirical article mocking the left-wing obsession over privilege, microaggressions, and trigger warnings. In response, he was fired from his job and some social justice warriors vandalized his dorm room. Stuff like that makes me suspect that for some leftists, the real motivation is harming people they hate, not helping anyone.
I’m white, but occasionally strangers firmly believe that I’m not. Then I get a conversation like this.
“Where are you from?”
“Kentucky”
“No, I mean where does your family come from?”
“My Dad is from Iowa and my Mom is from Germany.”
“No, no, I mean where do your ancestors originally come from?”
“Germany and Russia”
“But aren’t you an Arab or something?”
It never occurred to me to be pissed about this, or to feel otherized or excluded or traumatized or whatever the popular word is at this moment. Instead I find it funny. And most of the intelligent and healthy people I know find these things funny, regardless of race or anything other characteristic. Reacting by being offended and insisting on a simple and minor change to society would not accomplish anything.
Further, society is a bunch of people. Seeking a simple and minor change to society is really trying to change a vast number of people. And regardless of how simple and minor it may look to you, it may turn out not to be.
If your argument doesn’t boil down to that, what the fuck is the point of mentioning folks that have it worse?
And here you’ve got another stupid argument. You’re pulling a couple of fairly silly examples of alleged microaggressions and hoping that everyone is too dumb to realize that they’re hardly representative of what folks are generally talking about. Let me know how that works out for you.
Love that adverb, “occasionally.” Spend awhile looking at it, and see if you can figure out why it’s important.
Well, if you want to know why I mentioned the homeless, the hungry, and those in prison in my first post, you could just read it and pay attention to what I said. But to save you the trouble, I’ll explain it again.
In my experience, nearly every accusation of a microaggression is stupid, and makes the accuser look dumb. Typically the accuser is an immensely privileged person who’s claiming to be unprivileged and a victim. Often the target of their accusation is both totally innocent of wrongdoing, and less privileged (or no more privileged) than the accuser. In such a case, the accuser is obviously clueless regarding issues of privilege.
I suggested that such ignorant people should try working in a homeless shelter, soup kitchen, or prison, because there they would encounter underprivileged people, possibly for the first time in their lives. This might be an educational experience, and reduce their ignorance.
So obviously I did not say “because someone else in the world has it worse, a person is not allowed to complain”, nor is there any justification for you to misrepresent what I said like that.
Hardly. I see no difference in silliness between complaining about “you guys” and complaining about “where do you really come from”, or complaining about “pregnant women” and complaining about “I believe the most qualified person should get the job.” All are equally ridiculous complaints.
(Well, actually the last one is more ridiculous than the others. It’s wrong to believe that the most qualified person should get the job? Au contraire. It’s right to believe that the most qualified person should get the job. But I guess that’s what our government has sunk to.)
I disagree. There are real issues facing certain groups of people. For blacks in this country, for instance, one might name the large number of black men in prison, the crappy schools many black students are stuck in, and police brutality. But accusations of microaggressions and demands for removal of books like Huckleberry Finn because it contains the word “nigger” will do absolutely nothing to solve these problems. In fact, they will hurt the effort to solve real problems.
Because there’s a constant battle to make people who are not directly affected care about the real problems facing poor blacks. And if such a person constantly hears people “overdoing it” on Huck Finn and other issues where there’s no legitimate basis for complaint, or issues that are very minor, that person is likely to conclude that blacks have no legitimate grievance at all.
Kumail Nanjiani. heard that bit on Sirius a few days ago.
Actually, that’s not what you said, given that you said the accuser ought to work in a homeless shelter so they could “meet people who are actually underprivileged, possibly for the first time in their lives.” That’s a little hard to do if you’re targeting an underprivileged person.
I know you were hoping I wouldn’t go back and read what you wrote. Sorry that didn’t work out for you.
This is not just nitpicking. The introduction of the less-privileged status of the target of the microaggression charge changes your argument. It’s still dumb, mind you, but it’s a different dumb argument. If the relative privilege of the accuser and the accused is relevant, how is it to be determined? Is it therefore appropriate for microaggression charges to go “uphill”–that is, are you all good with a student charging his professor with microaggression? Is there any sense at all in which your complaint is anything other than a 100% high-grade ad hominem that you’re expecting us to take seriously?
No thye’re not.
Yeah, this happens with anyone who’s not obviously white or black.
My closest friend has a Japanese mom and American dad. She had this exchange at a high-school boyfriend’s house:
Parent: So, where are you from?
Suzie: Well, I was born on the base in Okinawa, then we lived in California, then…
Parent (interrupting): No, no, where are your people from?
Suzie: Alabama!
(Truth, BTW. Dad’s people ARE from Alabama.)
It sucks that people figure out what’s *really *being asked pretty early in life. Nobody asks me where I’m “really” from.