I agree, we aren’t experiencing anywhere near what they go through.
My point is that normally people who are white, educated and middle class are insulated from the conseuences of the evils that America is capable of. its why so many keep saying ‘this isn’t america’ in the current situation. But this is america and always has been, its just that white middle class people are seeing it for the first time, and their wealth, class, race, education, etc isn’t protecting them from seeing it like it normally does.
Or, and I might be going out on a limb here, most Americans don’t share in the Ultra-Liberal view of America as some sort of totalitarian fascist failed state.
But America is and always has been a totalitarian fascist state for black people. Slavery and Jim Crow were totalitarian dictatorships.
Which is my point. Gun violence is not an issue as long as it only affects black people. When it gets into the white community, its a national emergency. Same with drugs, as long as it only affects the black community its fine and the response is brutal police. When it affects teh white community, its a national emergency.
Middle class whites are used to America valuing them, caring about their well being, caring about their input, wanting to solve their problems. Black people have lived their entire time in the country knowing the country wants to hurt them, make their life harder and take away their rights.
Under Trump, middle class whites are getting a taste of what America is truly capable of and seeing what its like when America doesn’t value you and actively wants to hurt you, and its causing a lot of culture shock.
My aunt, cousin, so many fraternity brothers I can’t count, and friends, are LGBTQIA+ I can’t count.
I have long been an ally. I’ve not always been the best ally, but dammit, I am. I’ve gotten a lot better at it.
My 7-year-old niece made me a Keychain of rainbow beads. Those beads are outside my pocket. Always.
Very, VERY long story made…shorter. My wide is an assistant principal. A student went missing. Turns out she was taken to a reprogramming camp in Somalia because she was trans.
She escaped. Her only outlet was my wife. Naturally, when the embassy called, we took her in.
She is doing great.
Here is where it ties in: I live in the reddest part of Central Ohio. Like, “next to a gun club” red. Fortunately, most people around here know me well, and know not to fuck with her.
I think this story is relevant to the thread, but it is funny enough to tell anyway. A Greek mathematician was marrying in Bloomington IN a white-bread American woman. When they got a marriage license, the clerk filled in the form. One of the items was race. For the woman he checked “white”. For the man, he checked “other” and and on the line added “white”. So as they joked, she was white and he was other white.
Reading this story made me feel like I was in a Twilight Zone episode! Details:
My late father was a Greek immigrant. When he married my mother (in 1948, in rural western Maryland) my mother’s race was listed as “White”, and my father’s was left blank. We have surmised that the clerk didn’t know whether Greeks were considered White, because he probably hadn’t seen many of them. Many people who today are considered White might not have been in the relatively recent past. There’s an aphorism I can’t recall exactly, but it says something like “if one person is discriminated against, we all are.” The above incident incident made me realize how true this is.
Of course, I’ve never been denied rights or subjected to discriminatory laws the way Black people, Native Americans, Jews and other groups have in America.
I agree with the last paragraph. But from what I can tell, that (incremental reforms and protection from mistreatment from people actively trying to harm them) is exactly what America had from roughly the end of WWII up until 1/20/2017. Bernie represents those who want it all at once rather than incrementally. In that sense, yes, he’s a gamble, but one who can, and has backfired when those favoring the “all at once or nothing” approach fail to show up to vote because they hate incrementalism despite it’s proven 70 or so year track record (see the 1994, 2000, 2010, 2016, and 2024 elections among some of the examples of this phenomenon).
I sort of agree with you, but sort of don’t. When liberal are in charge, there has to be punishment dealt out to the bullies that acted illegally. Not just a tap on the wrist, but real punishment. The failure of the Biden administration to do anything meaningful about the 1/6/2021 insurrectionists is exhibit #1 in this tendency that liberals have to believe that “forgive and try to rehabilitate is better than punishing people”. That’s a great belief to have if we’re talking about someone that is addicted to alcohol or other substances, or maybe someone who broke the law as a means of survival (shoplifting food, driving a vehicle that doesn’t meet inspection standards, sleeping in public areas that are illegal to do so while homeless, etc.). It’s a terrible belief when it comes to violent criminals for whoever reform is extremely unlikely at best. For those people, locking them away and throwing away the key (maybe not for life, but for a really long time), is the only sane response.
Great saying. Despite discussions on this topic in other threads on this board, I still don’t understand how that trick is actually pulled off. Yet, it undeniably is the case that it has been.
America used to be a totalitarian fascist state for Black people and other minorities. But it hasn’t always been. There was real, legitimate progress made over the decades, most since WWII, but some even before that. By saying it has “always” been a totalitarian fascist state for Black people, that plays into the all or nothing thinking that gets the anti-fascist side into trouble when Republicans win low D turnout elections.
Uh, they got sent to prison. We are not quite at the bullet in the back of the head. Took a long time to round them up. Trump of course pardoned them and it apears he is going to send them money. Probably because felons have a hard time getting a job. And, well Trump needs to fill out his army of goons and thugs.
We have the Brown Shirts (ICE). Who is gonna be the SS and the Gestapo?
There’s a pretty big middle ground between a bullet to the back of the head and the one year give or take a few months that most of them got, assuming they got any jail time at all. IMHO they should have gotten a 10 to 20 years, not a few months. Yes, I know Trump eventually pardoned them. But at the rate things were going, even if Harris had won, almost none of them would have faced any kind of substantial penalty. We can’t blame that on Trump.
As to the main premise of the OP, I don’t think it’s just middle class white Democrats that are joining the ranks of the “they might come for me”. It’s anybody that may have crossed Trump at some point. They don’t even have to be Democrats or liberals, as shown by the treatment given to John Bolton, James Comey, etc.
That’s quite a distance away from what I was discussing. People who have broken the law should be prosecuted under the law. And that discussion is even a further distance away from the issues raised in the OP, i.e. the alleged widespread experience of white, educated, middle-class men WEMCM) of feeling the kind of repression previously reserved for minorities and others not blessed with WEMCM privilege.
It’s related in the sense that the people who are conducting those prosecutions, not just of the WEMCM people with privilege, but anyone who is being wrongfully prosecuted, should themselves face a firm, harsh, justice when the shoe is on the other foot. No more “forgiving them so that we can all get back to being civil” BS, which from what I saw was how Biden was approaching things.
