It seems that we’re gravitating away from the lone piece of bait theory, but I’ll mention it anyway- my Shield spell could easily give you an edge against arrows.
Can we not hint to the orcs that we’ve got a hawk working for us, please? They don’t need to know that.
Deor, I think you can only cast Shield on yourself.
Ghân takes your point about not mentioning flying hawks.
How about a flying Magician - or is that too risky?
My problem is that I don’t want us ambushed by hordes of orcs simultaneously creeping out of all the exits…
You’re right- I had been thinking range of “touch”, but it’s “self”. I don’t have fly, or at least cannot cast it until third level. And as to the hawk comment- I agree that Folca is a major asset in this, I just don’t want anyone who doesn’t need to know about her to get wind that we might have airborne help.
The Shield spell is only for the caster and only protects from the front. So it would not help much in this case.
I think there are 13 orcs left. Could they convince the leaders that our party was too tough for them?
Maybe, maybe not. How would we spin it?
Obviously we try for daylight.
Suppose we say a party of 8? (leave all the animals and familiars out of it, though)
Renee asks, “Won’t Thoroncir and Theogrim be disappointed to still be dismounted?”
The orc is still not sure, he guesses if he said that the 13 ran off after you slayed the rest it might work. Hmm, that is almost true.
[del]Could a flying hawk definitely see a strong orc force come out of any of them?[/del]
How fast do they move?
Are we saying we need our horses or the Cavalry?
Just saying that there is no ambush spots, but if you catch them far enough from the mountain, they won’t be able to escape back.
Ghân meant - if the orc troops successfully revolt and kill the remaining leaders, could they bring the bodies and possessions out to us? Then we could share the treasure (because we can Detect Magic ), before they head off to the lands in the East.
Why bring the bodies? I guess we can bring the items, but that will be a hard sell to the other orcs. We would just want to hightail it at that point, ladened with food and drink.
Sorry, Ghân meant - how long before the pursuit starts of the orc troops heading for the lands in the East?
It will either be almost immediately or maybe delayed a few hours.
Can I ask Thoroncir and Theogrim for their more informed opinions of the Gondorian cavalry’s equipment and skill- how well will they hold up against a) Hunter-Killers and Uruk-Hai and b) against masses of weaker orcs? (I’m a home-town boy, and these imitation Rohirrim just rub me the wrong way :dubious: ) Are they strong enough to encircle the enemy, peppering them with arrows Mongolian style without simply making themselves easy targets for the Hunter-Killers? Or are they going to be better off simply smashing in and getting into a melee battle to avoid those strongbows? Likewise importantly, can they bring us our mounts? How well do our archers compare to those Hunter-Killers, both range-wise and damage-wise?
So what I’m understanding is that the party will try to act as bait for the orcs, draw them out, and then draw them as far away from the caves as possible. Could I suggest that we try to have the Gondorian Cavalry sweep around either side of us and get behind the main orc party? I feel like the orcs are more likely to try to scout ahead of their party than leave a competent rearguard, and we might let the Gondorians simply smash into the orcs when they finally break off pursuit. That would help keep the orcs from knowing about the cavalry’s approach (who keep scouts behind themselves during a big pursuit? Most would worry more about being drawn into a trap on the way out, rather than on the way back.) As a bonus, the orcs will be most tired at this point, before they’re walking back, because they’ll have run a couple of miles, but not yet caught their breath. In addition, the enemy camp is in a hill, isn’t it? The Gondorians might even hold the high ground, especially if there’s a good ridge or hill on the way. That could make up for the lack of cover for the ambush. Given that the game doesn’t have a system in place to give bonuses to those holding the high ground, are there any house rules in place to cover the situation?
In other news, I’m going to note that I’m expecting to be less helpful this time around in a combat spellcasting fashion- Sleep has been excellent when we’re only facing twenty or thirty foes and it can fell half of them, but if we’re fighting fifty or sixty, the net effect will be greatly lessened. I don’t have a good solution for that, so I’m going to focus on casting, then on running away, probably after making myself invisible. Alternatively, I could make myself invisible and focus on being a scout and/or messenger. I’m also going to load some attention-grabbing cantrips like Smokepuff and Firefinger, just to show off to the enemy that the enemy is powerful enough that our Fifth Columnists would reasonably fail to best us.
**I do give and advantage to high ground attacks for charges, bracing against charges and bowing. **
Renee to Deor, "I think your ideas are good, but the Orcs live in a tunneled out mountain warren. There would be no safe high ground for mountain units. The sweep around sounds excellent, I believe your people used that tactic successful when Eorl the Young first road south.
Captain Helton and his ***sixty ** * will bring our mounts, but perhaps we do not want them approaching too closely to the mountains if we wish to do this ambush.
I can speak to the cavalry; they are much like Thoroncir here. Very good at charging, reasonable armor and they do not bow from horseback except for ***ten to twelve *** of them. Most would be more skilled than Thoroncir in lance but not as good as Theogrim of course. There are a few Knights of the Mark in their number though. They might be closer to Theogrim. (Please note surprising knowledge for a healer.)
In a battle of bows, the hunter killers would be better than all but Brin, Gil-Gandel, Riglo, Caramir and his small party of Rangers of Ithilien. They are all skills archers and stealthy."
Riglo is a doughty Ranger; he is an old vet and close friend of Prince Faramir.
As to your use in this battle, being our eyes in the sky may prove the most valuable.
Are we to be the bait then? Where will Moose be? Who will be mounted? All of us or just a few? We probably need some walkers to lure the Uruks into pursuit."
**Theogrim ** recalls that ***four *** of the cavalry are from Rohan and are indeed nearly his equal with the lance. He also recalls that the Rangers of Ithilien number only four.
Thoroncir bows to Renee. “My lady, your knowledge of the arms of Gondor and Rohan does you great credit.” He then says to Gil-Gandel, “For my part, I would prefer to be mounted in the battle soon to be waged, but will fight in whatever manner as may be most helpful in springing our trap and besting our foes.”
Unfortunately, I feel I will not be of much use in this fight.
I do not have the range of a bow and I would not be much use in a fight. An ambush in the open in broad daylight, leaves me with little to do.
Is there anything else that needs doing which I can help with?
If we do lure the Orcs down from their cave entrances to somewhere we can get to them , we still need to ensure we actually get them out of the caves. There is no point doing this if we only have 30 or so Orcs following.
Will the majority of the Orcs chase us if we appear as a party?
We need to pick our ambush ground carefully, a valley the cavalry can charge into and prevent the majority of foes retreating from would be good.
Ghân appreciates the support of party members:
Deor, your Sleep is invaluable versus such opponents. Suppose a bunch of orcs break off from the main party and charge the casters : you are the one to take them out.
If you, Ghân, Fang, Renee and Moose stay together, we can help each other. If you go off Invisible, what happens if something tracks you by scent? What if you fall into a hole?
Thoroncir, you have been most patient with battles fought in woods and underground. This time you should be mounted and charge about the battlefield!
Mulligan, even in daylight there may be chances to hide and backstab. Alternatively, perhaps Deer could make you Invisible, and you could either cut off retreating orc leaders, or guard the casters.
Please could others comment constructively on the plan:
the orcs seem to need a specific cover story to lure out their leaders.
How about saying a group of gnolls has attacked the orc hunting party? What if we told the orcs to mention a dragon?
since there are no obvious ambush spots, we need the Cavalry to ride down the orcs before they can retreat to the caverns.
(DM, how long before the Cavalry arrive? Are they bringing our mounts?)
Orcs, “What’s a Noll?”
Renee asks, “Why would they be afraid of a small rounded hill or mound? Or is knoll a term for some creature, perhaps elves in your native tongue.”
Orc, “A dragon story would make leaders dig deeper and cower sending snagas out to verify the story.”
(Cavalry should arrive by dawn which is getting close, but if we let them arrive, there will be no surprise. They should be bringing our mounts.)
Sorry about the gnoll bit, but you have never seen the MM version of a gnoll and the term is alien to both the party and orcs. We can say it is a term for a specific tribe of orcs if you like.
Moose in moose, “I want to attack, I charge with Theo & Thor, kill orc and prosper.”
OK, how about a rival orc tribe?
Maybe Ghân could describe a group of orcs we have previously fought…
Moose is of course welcome to charge with the others.
A former coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, Chuck by name, of course!
How about a caravan of settlers, loyal to King Elessar but guarded by twenty or twenty-five men, moderately armed? Too much for this group of orcs to have defeated, but surely a tempting prize?
That sounds promising - since we know a similar caravan was attacked recently not too far from here. The only trouble is that I do not know if we can convincingly pose as such.
I fully approve of Thoroncir going forth mounted. We have a foot contingent already - I can ride well, but do not normally fight from horseback, Gwaelur would as soon bear a horse as be borne by one, our spellcasters should have firm ground under their feet for preference.
I think Mulligan should trust his innate stealth if we have any kind of cover at all, and as Ghan says, there will always be the chance to be “overlooked” while in the vicinity of an important member of the enemy forces. I doubt there will be a Witch-King handy 
but one must do one’s best.
We may not need to convincingly pose as anything- the rumor of such a thing will be enough to draw the orcs out of their hole. I suspect that we could put up a convincing portrayal, though, if the cavalry brought anything in the way of supply wagons.
I think I’ll go on horseback, too- I really doubt that I can outrun the orcs for very long, and I can cast on horseback if not moving.
So how does this middle-of-the-night casting count against my spell count for the day? Do I have only 1 1st and 1 2nd, or can I sleep off that first cast spell and be back up to full?
Sure, all I need is a female in disguise to back me up 
It doesn’t necessarily have to be a caravan. It’s the prize that is important, so we need to have a prize for the Orcs to try and get a hold of. Greed is always a strong motivator and if the prize was big enough would get the main chieftains outside to ensure that they got their cut.
What would be a big enough prize. Gold, treasure, or something even more important, that could strike a blow against the Men of the West?
Renee asks “Would the son of the female in disguise be enough?” For some reason she than surprisingly giggles to herself.
“I think you are onto the right idea of the decoy, a group fought these orcs here, killing many, but they were hauling some valuables of some sort. But who would have valuables this close to these mountains?”
As to the night casting, if the spellcasters get back to sleep soon and get a full 4 hours of sleep, you would have your spells. I doubt this will time out well however for setting up the initial ambush.
I’ll be out of town on a Cub Scout campout from now through mid-Sunday. Malacandra or glee can run Thoroncir as they see fit, consistent with what I’ve done so far. Good luck, everybody!
After consulting with the orcs, Ghân states that the Cavalry must not come too close, else the emerging orc leaders will see them.
Either Gil-Gandel (or maybe Ghân on Moose :eek: ) needs to intercept the Cavalry before they enter the valley we are currently in - then we lead the orc leaders to the cavalry for the ambush.
Hopefully our messenger could bring back some or all of our mounts, so we can be more mobile too.
So to recap.
We are going to set an ambush not far from here, by getting one set of Orcs to lure out the other Orcs.
The reason for doing so, is for a large prize or booty either of gold & jewels or a person of significant interest or possibly both.
We will lead them to a place not far from here where we will be acting as decoys and the cavalry can sweep around to engage them from the sides. The idea being to prevent them from being able to retreat to the caves they came from.
We have to lead the Orc pursuers on a bit of a chase to get them into an ambush and hopefully extricate ourselves. There are likely to be 6 HKs, some Shaman and about 100-150 Orcs or various shapes and sizes.
The Orcs working with us will assist to kill all the other Orcs if we let them go East after the battle.
Things to do:
Anything else?