Would enacting a compulsory miliary service in the U.S. (perhaps similar to what Israel has) have a postive effect on gangs problems or would members and potential members simply come back from service with a better accuracy?
A few years ago there was talk about gang members who were going into the service to learn fighting & survival techniques that they intended to take back to the streets.
:dubious:
I never heard a confirmation of this, and it the story sounds dubious to me as most of this knowledge is already available on line and in many publications.
I, for one, feel that conscription is not a good idea. Do you really want the people protecting us to be those that didn’t want to do it?
A few years ago there was talk about gang members who were going into the service to learn fighting & survival techniques that they intended to take back to the streets.
:dubious:
I never heard a confirmation of this, and it the story sounds dubious to me as most of this knowledge is already available on line and in many publications. Why join the service to learn it?
I, for one, feel that conscription is not a good idea. Do you really want the people protecting us to be those that didn’t want to do it?
WTF?
:smack: How did that happen?
I think military service would be good for many gang members but not mandatory service. Judges use to give some 1st time offenders a nudge into joining. I would like to see that again.
I served with a Chief in the Navy who entered the Navy in this way. He made a career out of it.
Jim
Actually, I’ve heard the military blamed for our violent culture. In recent decades, the military has included desensitization to violence in it’s training; when the soldiers come back into society, they provide a constant infusion a violently minded people into our culture ( or so the theory goes). One could argue that compulsory service with simply create more violence, by better trained people.
Besides, what makes anyone think ex soldiers will be calmer, more disiplined, less violent people ? For thousands of years, off duty soldiers have been notorious for wild behavior; the military teaches obedience, not disipline. Once out from under an officers eye, soldiers tend to be quite undisiplined.
It would be an extremely weak argumnent though. The military might attempt to teach desensitasation to violence, but the best way to be desensitised is to experience it, something that only actual wars can achieve.
So by this argument the massive infusion of densitised soldiers coming back into societies following war should correlate with a massive increase in violence. Of course the stats show exactly the opposite, that during and following major wars societal violence decreases.
The argument simply doesn’t hold water.
I see you have never actually served and are speaking without any real knowledge.
Do you have any studies or cites for your theory. It is insulting to everyone who ever served.
The military can and has done a lot for your people that are sure what they are doing with their lives. I can at least speak from actual experience.
Jim
Sorry I meant:
The military can and has done a lot for young people that aren’t sure what they are doing with their lives. I can at least speak from actual experience.
Jim
Really? From whom? Care to provide a reputable citation for this?
Or for this?
What makes anyone think that we who have served in the military are all like those whom you describe?
BTW, where do you get the idea that the military does not teach discipline?
I wouldn’t like to see that again. What you describe is, IMHO, very little different from conscription. In either case, the military would be forced to accept individuals who really don’t want to be there.
The argument alluded to by Der Trihs I have heard articulated by Sunera Thobani. Is that where you read it, or are there more people saying it?
I’ve often theorized that part of our society’s gang problem stems from the fact that we have no concrete “rites of passage” which literally seperate the men from the boys. Young people seem to have a craving for ritualized structure which are fulfilled in some by gangs-- others join frats. 
This craving seems to be exaggerated in some people who did not have good parental socialization, so perhaps gang members are simply trying to exchange one form of structure for another.
The recruit in question could chose to go to Jail or join the military.
Usually the Prison term was much shorter than the military hitch.
I mentioned the Chief I served with because he was a great example, but I also served with kids my age (18-22) that escaped gang violence by joining. I am not sure it would be so bad.
I was in 85-89. I understood the judicial nudge practice was prevalent in the 60’s when the draft was in full swing.
What years were you in and were you familiar with anyone who joined for these reasons?
I heard it worked pretty well. A lot of 18-20 year olds just need direction, I know I did.
Jim
I served from 1979 to 2000. The All Volunteer military isn’t a myth; it’s actually all volunteer. The idea of a judge telling an offender “I’ll not send you to jail if you join the military” is just unworkable now, and has been unworkable for quite some time. The biggest reason is that most (if not all) the things that’ll get someone sent up for trial will disqualify them from the military, IIUTRC.
Sure the military could help with Troubled Youth. The military is the all-purpose part of government. Road repairs, mapping, rescue, strike-breaking, the military can do all sorts of neat stuff. Besides, as has been so often pointed out, they are just sitting around all the time.
But in truth if we use the military for one thing (fixing roads) they cannot also do some other thing (being ready for war) as well.
So yes the military could help, but isn’t being prepared for war a more important mission?
Tell it to the Spartans, bub.
“Decades”… yeesh.
While I wouldn’t neccessarily want them in the national military, states with heavy gang and drug violence might want to consider re-introducing the state militia. While Libertarians will likely want to hang me for proposing such jobs programs, hear me out.
It seems to be the case that drug dealing and gang-banging are not really very lucrative. That is, they don’t pay well and tend to get you hurt. Some community experiments have had good success in employing gang members just by getting some kind of jobs available. Perhaps offering some kind of community jobs, getting poeple out of the city and seeing the world, could be financially a better deal for the state and the individual.
Obviously I am not an expert. You have far more experience, so I am just going to try one more time and if you tell me their is no longer room, I will drop out of the debate. While you served far longer than I, our enlistments did overlap.
Ok, I think the old theory was that a first time offended for a petty larceny might benefit more from Boot Camp and Military Training than criminal college (I mean prison).
I wouldn’t suggest repeat offenders but what if the kid got caught for a minor offense and the Judge made a judgement that if he stayed in the neighborhood, he would probably become a career criminal but enlistment would turn him into a fine young citizen? This requires us to trust Judges to some degree, but the military could of course still reject the person.
Jim
The military teaches military discipline, ie: submission to outside authority. It doesn’t necessarily teach *self-*discipline.